I wuz going through my 'spare kit' with a view to putting a few more
things on ****eBay when I happened across my hitherto neglected AKG P6R
cart with is spherical stylus:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/AKGP6R.jpg


....and I thought 'better give this a ride to see if it's any good - if
not, I'll get rid'! So I rigged it up (by eye only - only saps use
protractors and scales :-) and bunged it on my GL72 'Victoria Sponge'
deck:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/myhifi/VicSponge.jpg


Then put on a disc on which I thought might give it a good workout!
******oso mio!!** Furry animals fell out of the trees outside, a car
swerved off the road, the front door fell out and the guy next door put
his house up for sale! :-))

Here's a 'warts 'n' all' snatch/track/snatch which will show you a) how
*not at all bad* this cart is despite its lowly spherical stylus and b)
why vinylistas larf when people bang on about stuff like CD's 'dynamic
range':

First, miked from my TL speakers:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...01%20(mic).mp3


And then recorded direct to hard disk to show what it *should* sound
like I suppose!!

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...20(direct).mp3


Put your best cans on and wick it up as *large* as you can stand; then
take a grip of summat that bolted to the floor!! (Not for the Quad
Squad!! ;-)

(Tell me he's *not* saying 'Vegetables, Fresh Vegetables'....??)

"Keith Gormless Git Pommy Idiot "


( snip pile of sickening, narcissistic drivel)



** Wang King is certainly no Chinese city.





......... Phil

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:37:38 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


I wuz going through my 'spare kit' with a view to putting a few more
things on ****eBay when I happened across my hitherto neglected AKG P6R
cart with is spherical stylus:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/AKGP6R.jpg


...and I thought 'better give this a ride to see if it's any good - if
not, I'll get rid'! So I rigged it up (by eye only - only saps use
protractors and scales :-) and bunged it on my GL72 'Victoria Sponge'
deck:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/myhifi/VicSponge.jpg


Then put on a disc on which I thought might give it a good workout!
******oso mio!!** Furry animals fell out of the trees outside, a car
swerved off the road, the front door fell out and the guy next door put
his house up for sale! :-))

Here's a 'warts 'n' all' snatch/track/snatch which will show you a) how
*not at all bad* this cart is despite its lowly spherical stylus and b)
why vinylistas larf when people bang on about stuff like CD's 'dynamic
range':

First, miked from my TL speakers:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...01%20(mic).mp3


And then recorded direct to hard disk to show what it *should* sound
like I suppose!!

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show...20(direct).mp3


Put your best cans on and wick it up as *large* as you can stand; then
take a grip of summat that bolted to the floor!! (Not for the Quad
Squad!! ;-)

(Tell me he's *not* saying 'Vegetables, Fresh Vegetables'....??)



Mic very close to speaker, yes? And not directly in line with the
tweeter. This the first mic recording of yours where the direct
recording has been brighter than the mic recording. So I'm guessing
you used the IMFs and a pair of cardioids, if not the ribbons.

Dynamic range is good for vinyl at about 50dB, but there's still
better than another 40 to go before you would start seeing a CD
sweating.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote


Mic very close to speaker, yes?


Yes, the usual - about 9 inches, but not the usual mics.


And not directly in line with the
tweeter.


Correct - about in line with the bass units. (It was the *slam* I was
after!)


This the first mic recording of yours where the direct
recording has been brighter than the mic recording. So I'm guessing
you used the IMFs and a pair of cardioids, if not the ribbons.


Yes, the IMFs and my (cardioid) CAD GXL2400s - rebadged OEM Shuaiyin
mics which were cheap and which I use for 'dirty work'; not the ribbon
(also rebadged Shuaiyin) - I only have one of those and I wouldn't
subject it to that sort of behaviour!!



Dynamic range is good for vinyl at about 50dB, but there's still
better than another 40 to go before you would start seeing a CD
sweating.


That's *on paper* - anybody/everybody knows you get much better *phat*
slam in the real world from vinyl!! (This is about *sound* - not
*signal*; you can forget the figures when it comes to hosing the actual
noise about..!! :-)

On 15 Oct, 16:30, "Keith G" wrote:
"Don Pearce" wrote

Mic very close to speaker, yes?

Yes, the usual - about 9 inches, but not the usual mics.

And not directly in line with the

tweeter.

Correct - about in line with the bass units. (It was the *slam* I was
after!)

This the first mic recording of yours where the direct

recording has been brighter than the mic recording. So I'm guessing
you used the IMFs and a pair of cardioids, if not the ribbons.

Yes, the IMFs and my (cardioid) CAD GXL2400s - rebadged OEM Shuaiyin
mics which were cheap and which I use for 'dirty work'; not the ribbon
(also rebadged Shuaiyin) - I only have one of those and I wouldn't
subject it to that sort of behaviour!!



Dynamic range is good for vinyl at about 50dB, but there's still
better than another 40 to go before you would start seeing a CD
sweating.

That's *on paper* - anybody/everybody knows you get much better *phat*
slam in the real world from vinyl!! (This is about *sound* - not
*signal*; you can forget the figures when it comes to hosing the actual
noise about..!! :-)

Keith

I'm not sure I know what phat slam is, but I know what small changes
to frequency response sound like.

A few years ago I spent ages optimising the loading of my Shure V15/3
and the flatter the response became (within fractions of a dB,
measured with a test disk) the more it sounded like my CD player with
the same album. Very close in the end. So if your AKG cartridge
sounds very different from a CD player it is probably not very good.

I was never able to get the bass as punchy from the LP though (I think
LPs are quite restricted at low frequencies to avoid mis-tracking) and
of course there was always the crackle and pop in the background.

Regards

Paul

wrote



I'm not sure I know what phat slam is, but I know what small changes
to frequency response sound like.

A few years ago I spent ages optimising the loading of my Shure V15/3
and the flatter the response became (within fractions of a dB,
measured with a test disk) the more it sounded like my CD player with
the same album. Very close in the end. So if your AKG cartridge
sounds very different from a CD player it is probably not very good.

I was never able to get the bass as punchy from the LP though (I think
LPs are quite restricted at low frequencies to avoid mis-tracking) and
of course there was always the crackle and pop in the background.



OK, then - what bits of QUAD kit do you have...??

:-)

In article .com,
wrote:


A few years ago I spent ages optimising the loading of my Shure V15/3
and the flatter the response became (within fractions of a dB, measured
with a test disk) the more it sounded like my CD player with the same
album.

Also my experience with the V15 when comparing classical music on the same
LP/CD.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote


Mic very close to speaker, yes?


Yes, the usual - about 9 inches, but not the usual mics.


And not directly in line with the
tweeter.


Correct - about in line with the bass units. (It was the *slam* I was
after!)

This means that what you recorded will probably sound quite unrepresentive
of what the sound is like out in the room.


That's *on paper* - anybody/everybody knows you get much better *phat*
slam in the real world from vinyl!! (This is about *sound* - not
*signal*; you can forget the figures when it comes to hosing the actual
noise about..!! :-)

You can certainly ignore the figures, or be ignorant of them, or have no
idea how to interpret what they mean... I don't think that "everybody"
falls into that category, though, although it may be true of many... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote


Mic very close to speaker, yes?


Yes, the usual - about 9 inches, but not the usual mics.


And not directly in line with the
tweeter.


Correct - about in line with the bass units. (It was the *slam* I was
after!)

This means that what you recorded will probably sound quite
unrepresentive
of what the sound is like out in the room.


Absolutely right.

When I post soundclips they are mostly (usually only) for Don's benefit
as few other have ever commented. I know he is a capable and experienced
listener and can probably *hear through* the obvious
artifacts/distortions. (It normally takes 3 or 4 passes for most people
to break down the *strangeness* of a new 'sound!) But the fact is he's a
*subwoofer user* and I'm not; I have never been able to tolerate one for
more than a few minutes - I don't even use one for movies! Don and I
would never choose the same system - not for vinyl, at least....

(I can and do use 'blameless audio' for radio and movies most of the
time... ;-)




That's *on paper* - anybody/everybody knows you get much better
*phat*
slam in the real world from vinyl!! (This is about *sound* - not
*signal*; you can forget the figures when it comes to hosing the
actual
noise about..!! :-)

You can certainly ignore the figures, or be ignorant of them, or have
no
idea how to interpret what they mean... I don't think that "everybody"
falls into that category, though, although it may be true of many...
:-)


:-)

Even the manufacturers throw the figures out when it comes to
engineering a little 'cut and lift' in here and there to create a
*sound* do they not...??

"Keith G" wrote


(I can and do use 'blameless audio' for radio and movies most of the
time... ;-)


Er, scrub that - I've just cut Johnny WAD (32Watt KT88 PP amp) into the
equation (rainy day fiddling, like you do) and I foresee changes coming!
On the IMFs with a CD on, it's just kicked the Technics' scrawny (100W?)
SS arse into the weeds! Talk about *adding life* to the procedings - and
no wonder some [1] say a single 'valve Watt' is worth at least *two* 'SS
Watts'..!!

:-)


[1] Actually, the last person to say that to me was L*n Gr*gory, the
Cartridge Man, but let's not go there....!!