Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living, Keith. ;-)


Don't talk so stupid, Plowie - I had 50 employees in two firms and
probably know a little bit more about paying staff than you do.

'Had' being the operative word.


'Operative' how? I'm retired Plowie - have been for 9 years now, I don't
need staff. (If you'd worked a little harder in your youth maybe you could
be retired also...)



Add to that I get charged for stuff like 'bike servicing and that Swim
is in full time employ, so I'm not quite so out of touch as you'd like
to think....

So pray tell what you feel a reasonable charge would be for this repair -


Anything over 20 quid *absolute max* would be a waste of money - I pointed
to a number of eBay auctions where VCRs were sitting at 99p + a bit of
postage...

**Yeah, right. Like one of my clients, who wanted a new tellie. I discussed
the situation at length and, due his TV room being large and with floor to
ceiling North facing windows, I suggested a large plasma would be a good
choice. He, being budget minded (dunno why, what with his 5 million Dollar
house, Merc SL500 and all) he decided to buy a used projector. I advised
against the projector, due to the high cost of replacement lamps and the
high ambient light levels. Anyhoo, the whole thing went pear-shaped.
Naturally, the TV cannot be watched during daylight (even with the fancy new
screen). But wait, worse was to come. The projector ceased functioning a few
weeks later. I called in, climbed the ladder, retrieved the projector and
deduced that the lamp had gone belly-up. My client protested that the lamp
only had a couple of hundred hours on it (according to the timer in the
unit). I fitted a new lamp and noted that the reset for the lamp hours was a
manual operation.......

Sheesh.

Trevor Wilson

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
A few days ago he told me the local Robber Baron 'HiFi Shop had
quoted
him 50 quid to fix his (presumably ancient) VCR machine. I told
him to
tell them to get stuffed and gave him a perfectly tidy Panasonic
DVD
Recorder I simply never use.

The shop has apparently phoned him since and said they could now
fix the
VCR for 29 quid!

****ing shysters...

I dunno. Just how much an hour has a shop got to charge to cover
its
overheads? How long does it take just to open up a VCR to say
replace a
drive belt? How much longer to find an unspecified fault?

I'll make a start. To employ a half decent service engineer in the
SE of
England will cost you about 30 grand a year - before you add on NI
etc.
So a labour charge of at least 30 quid an hour is the minimum -
most will
charge rather more.

Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living, Keith.
;-)

**Not that I enjoy agreeing with Keith, I understand where he is
coming from. Let me explain:

As a service guy, I assess each job as it arrives. I offer two
options to my clients:

1) A rough guesstimate of the job, based on the description of the
fault and my experience with the particular piece of equipment. This
is free (I know - stupid me). I also advise the client I feel the
job is not worth proceeding with. A surprising number of people will
after request an item be serviced, even though it is not economical
to do so.
2) A full quote, which lists the parts required and the time taken
to do the job. For this, I charge AUS$55.00 UP FRONT. That cost is
deducted from the final cost. One of my mates in the business now
makes more money from quotes (which are not proceeded with) than he
does from actual repair work.

IMO, if the story related by Keith is factual,


Like it might not be?

**IME, your story could be 100% on the money.


Damn right it's 100% on the money - difficult it may be for you to
believe but I have *never* posted anything here knowing it to be
inaccurate or *false*. I don't try to snot over stuff I don't know
either - which is why I occasionally get losers like Plowie trying to
complete my education for me....

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living,
Keith. ;-)


Don't talk so stupid, Plowie - I had 50 employees in two firms and
probably know a little bit more about paying staff than you do.

'Had' being the operative word.


'Operative' how? I'm retired Plowie - have been for 9 years now, I
don't need staff. (If you'd worked a little harder in your youth
maybe you could be retired also...)



Add to that I get charged for stuff like 'bike servicing and that
Swim
is in full time employ, so I'm not quite so out of touch as you'd
like
to think....

So pray tell what you feel a reasonable charge would be for this
repair -


Anything over 20 quid *absolute max* would be a waste of money - I
pointed to a number of eBay auctions where VCRs were sitting at 99p +
a bit of postage...

**Yeah, right. Like one of my clients, who wanted a new tellie. I
discussed the situation at length and, due his TV room being large and
with floor to ceiling North facing windows, I suggested a large plasma
would be a good choice. He, being budget minded (dunno why, what with
his 5 million Dollar house, Merc SL500 and all) he decided to buy a
used projector. I advised against the projector, due to the high cost
of replacement lamps and the high ambient light levels. Anyhoo, the
whole thing went pear-shaped. Naturally, the TV cannot be watched
during daylight (even with the fancy new screen). But wait, worse was
to come. The projector ceased functioning a few weeks later. I called
in, climbed the ladder, retrieved the projector and deduced that the
lamp had gone belly-up. My client protested that the lamp only had a
couple of hundred hours on it (according to the timer in the unit). I
fitted a new lamp and noted that the reset for the lamp hours was a
manual operation.......

Sheesh.


Not sure how any of that relates to a 99p VCR - at that price you could
probably afford to go through a couple or three of them to get one that
works well enough....

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living, Keith.
;-)


Don't talk so stupid, Plowie - I had 50 employees in two firms and
probably know a little bit more about paying staff than you do.

'Had' being the operative word.


'Operative' how? I'm retired Plowie - have been for 9 years now, I don't
need staff. (If you'd worked a little harder in your youth maybe you
could be retired also...)



Add to that I get charged for stuff like 'bike servicing and that Swim
is in full time employ, so I'm not quite so out of touch as you'd like
to think....

So pray tell what you feel a reasonable charge would be for this
repair -


Anything over 20 quid *absolute max* would be a waste of money - I
pointed to a number of eBay auctions where VCRs were sitting at 99p + a
bit of postage...

**Yeah, right. Like one of my clients, who wanted a new tellie. I
discussed the situation at length and, due his TV room being large and
with floor to ceiling North facing windows, I suggested a large plasma
would be a good choice. He, being budget minded (dunno why, what with his
5 million Dollar house, Merc SL500 and all) he decided to buy a used
projector. I advised against the projector, due to the high cost of
replacement lamps and the high ambient light levels. Anyhoo, the whole
thing went pear-shaped. Naturally, the TV cannot be watched during
daylight (even with the fancy new screen). But wait, worse was to come.
The projector ceased functioning a few weeks later. I called in, climbed
the ladder, retrieved the projector and deduced that the lamp had gone
belly-up. My client protested that the lamp only had a couple of hundred
hours on it (according to the timer in the unit). I fitted a new lamp and
noted that the reset for the lamp hours was a manual operation.......

Sheesh.


Not sure how any of that relates to a 99p VCR - at that price you could
probably afford to go through a couple or three of them to get one that
works well enough....

**99p PLUS freight. It all adds up to a compete waste of money, if the
things don't work. I've noticed that a favourite scam appears to be loading
the freight costs, such that serious profits are made in that area.


Trevor Wilson

Robber Baron craps out...
 

In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:



As a service guy, I assess each job as it arrives. I offer two options
to my clients:

1) A rough guesstimate of the job, based on the description of the fault
and my experience with the particular piece of equipment. This is free
(I know - stupid me). I also advise the client I feel the job is not
worth proceeding with. A surprising number of people will after request
an item be serviced, even though it is not economical to do so.

I can understand why people tend to prefer to pay for 'uneconomic' repairs.
It may be because the item is a 'known' one which does what the user wants
when in good repair, and they are familiar with how to use it. One of the
risks of a new unit is that it might not do something the older unit did,
and you want. Or that it is a pest to use.

When my initial Philips DVD Videorecorder died I tried what Philips claim
is the 'replacement' model. It doesn't do all the things the original model
did, and is a pig to use. The handbook is also wrong in various places in
the instructions it gives.

Alas, repair proved impossible. In effect, it was a monopoly situation
where the option was that Philips sold you their 'replacement' which didn't
do what the original had done. Non-Philips repair bods I asked could not
get the info they needed. The problem here wasn't if the work was
'economic' or a matter of price. It was that Philips (as do some other
makers) seem to regard repair/service as a revenue stream.

There was time when many 'brown goods' items like these came with service
info, or it was widely avaliable to the repair/retail trade. Not now.
Companies may restrict who has access to the info. In effect a form or
anti-competitive practice to try and ensure you have to go to them, or the
agents who pay them, for repair. This also makes it easy for them to decide
on your behalf that a repair "isn't worth doing" and instead offer to sell
you a 'replacement'. Their decision on what is "uneconomic", not yours.

I tried a Sony, then bought a Panasonic. The Panasonic also does not do all
the original Philips did, but works well in other respects, and is far
easier to use that the Philips 'replacement' as well as having its own DTTV
tuner.

Goodbye Philips.

If the original unit had been repairable I would have chosen to have it
repaired, as it had some features I found very useful, and it gave
excellent results. That said, I've been happy enough with the Panasonic,
and now I've 'escaped' from Philips I will avoid buying anything from them
in future. Once bitten.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

Robber Baron craps out...
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living, Keith.
;-)


Don't talk so stupid, Plowie - I had 50 employees in two firms and
probably know a little bit more about paying staff than you do.

'Had' being the operative word.


'Operative' how? I'm retired Plowie - have been for 9 years now, I don't
need staff. (If you'd worked a little harder in your youth maybe you
could be retired also...)

Why would I want to retire? I work in a job which involves that which you
seem to spend all your time with - ie audio. So get paid for my hobby. ;-)

Add to that I get charged for stuff like 'bike servicing and that
Swim
is in full time employ, so I'm not quite so out of touch as you'd
like
to think....

So pray tell what you feel a reasonable charge would be for this
repair -


Anything over 20 quid *absolute max* would be a waste of money - I
pointed to a number of eBay auctions where VCRs were sitting at 99p + a
bit of postage...

I'm not disagreeing with that - just the principle. A repair shop is in
business to make a living. Not dish out free advice on economics. The
person in question may well have wanted his VCR repaired for any number of
reasons rather than buy new or secondhand. He might like the way it
operates, the facilities or just even the looks.


and it might help if you said what it actually consisted of.


How TF should I know?

So HTF can you know what is a reasonable quote for the repair?


Plenty of
VCRs when they break are simply not economic to repair.


You got there in the end....

Err, you spend all your time doing uneconomic things. Why want everyone
else to be different?



The 'Service Engineer' of that shop is one of the two brothers who
have
recently been *given it* by their father who is supposed to have
retired
(but is always hanging about in there). It is a goldmine - they have
been strimming the local Chavs for decades; my neighbour has known
them
and dealt with them for 30 years. There comes a time you tell a
person
like that when an item is beyond economic repair, not just take them
to
the cleaners. (Note the drastic 50 to 29 quid reduction...)

Doesn't your neighbour ever visit stores like Tesco etc and note the
price
of a new VCR?

No idea.


And therefore is capable of deciding himself if he wants it repaired
or not?


You're not really picking up on the dynamic here - the guy is 'old
school'; his instinct is to take a broken VCR to the local shop (where
he bought it) for repair and where he has been a customer for 30 years.
He doesn't know about the current 'throway ethos' and had probably paid
a ton for the machine when it was new. Where it falls on its arse is the
shysters (you need to see them in action) in the shop are/were more keen
to strim the old boy (a long-standing customer) for swift 50 quid than
point him in a better direction.

There's an awful lot of 'probables' there.

If you can see no wrong in that, then it tells a lot about you...

No - I just get fed up of those who can't do something telling someone who
can what the job should be worth. And the assumption that someone 'old
school' doesn't know the value of things.

Asitappens, Shiny Nigel who works at the shop is due round tonight,
if he makes it (he's in a state with ME or summat, so there's a
chance he won't show) I'll ask him how it's going in the 'repair
department' (loft, actually). My guess is that if it's gone quiet
they'll have got got rid of the *girl* who did most of the work....


Yes, she has left (some time ago) but it was her own idea, apparently...

Answering your own points now? ;-)


Seems you have forgotten the fixed costs of running any business.


WTF would you know?

By your attitude. I gave you a rough idea of the sort of costs a repair
shop might have which sets their rate for repairs. You seem to think they
can do it for 1960 prices.

--
*I pretend to work. - they pretend to pay me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Robber Baron craps out...
 

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
Not sure how any of that relates to a 99p VCR - at that price you
could probably afford to go through a couple or three of them to get
one that works well enough....

**99p PLUS freight. It all adds up to a compete waste of money, if the
things don't work. I've noticed that a favourite scam appears to be
loading the freight costs, such that serious profits are made in that
area.

If your Ebay is the same as here the postage costs are stated. So how can
that be a scam - unless you really have no idea what they actually cost?
It's simply a marketing ploy like any other. And if you dislike that ploy
simply don't bid or buy from that seller.

--
*Sherlock Holmes never said "Elementary, my dear Watson" *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Robber Baron craps out...
 

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
**Not that I enjoy agreeing with Keith, I understand where he is coming
from. Let me explain:

As a service guy, I assess each job as it arrives. I offer two options
to my clients:

1) A rough guesstimate of the job, based on the description of the fault
and my experience with the particular piece of equipment. This is free
(I know - stupid me). I also advise the client I feel the job is not
worth proceeding with. A surprising number of people will after request
an item be serviced, even though it is not economical to do so. 2) A
full quote, which lists the parts required and the time taken to do the
job. For this, I charge AUS$55.00 UP FRONT. That cost is deducted from
the final cost. One of my mates in the business now makes more money
from quotes (which are not proceeded with) than he does from actual
repair work.

So how does this differ from the shop offering to fix the VCR for 50 quid?

IMO, if the story related by Keith is factual, then, IMO, the service
guy was morally wrong. Legally, probably not, however.

I really don't know how you can say that on the facts provided by Keith.
It could be on enquiry the shop discovered the parts needed were now
discounted or whatever. I don't know, you don't know and Keith certainly
doesn't. He's just venting his spleen on a shop he doesn't like.

Let me also state, that fixing stuff is not the path to riches that it
once was. It is hard work and the rewards are not great.

Finding a repair shop is becoming impossible in many areas. And it will
get worse unless people are willing to pay the going rate.

--
*Income tax service - We‘ve got what it takes to take what you've got.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living,
Keith. ;-)


Don't talk so stupid, Plowie - I had 50 employees in two firms
and
probably know a little bit more about paying staff than you do.

'Had' being the operative word.


'Operative' how? I'm retired Plowie - have been for 9 years now, I
don't need staff. (If you'd worked a little harder in your youth
maybe you could be retired also...)



Add to that I get charged for stuff like 'bike servicing and that
Swim
is in full time employ, so I'm not quite so out of touch as you'd
like
to think....

So pray tell what you feel a reasonable charge would be for this
repair -


Anything over 20 quid *absolute max* would be a waste of money - I
pointed to a number of eBay auctions where VCRs were sitting at 99p
+ a bit of postage...

**Yeah, right. Like one of my clients, who wanted a new tellie. I
discussed the situation at length and, due his TV room being large
and with floor to ceiling North facing windows, I suggested a large
plasma would be a good choice. He, being budget minded (dunno why,
what with his 5 million Dollar house, Merc SL500 and all) he decided
to buy a used projector. I advised against the projector, due to the
high cost of replacement lamps and the high ambient light levels.
Anyhoo, the whole thing went pear-shaped. Naturally, the TV cannot
be watched during daylight (even with the fancy new screen). But
wait, worse was to come. The projector ceased functioning a few
weeks later. I called in, climbed the ladder, retrieved the
projector and deduced that the lamp had gone belly-up. My client
protested that the lamp only had a couple of hundred hours on it
(according to the timer in the unit). I fitted a new lamp and noted
that the reset for the lamp hours was a manual operation.......

Sheesh.


Not sure how any of that relates to a 99p VCR - at that price you
could probably afford to go through a couple or three of them to get
one that works well enough....

**99p PLUS freight. It all adds up to a compete waste of money, if the
things don't work. I've noticed that a favourite scam appears to be
loading the freight costs, such that serious profits are made in that
area.


Anyone with half a brain adds the cost of the item and shipping costs to
get a total and makes a decision - plenty of small things are on a 99p
'Buy It Now' with 9.99 postage....

Robber Baron craps out...
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
Let me also state, that fixing stuff is not the path to riches that
it once was. It is hard work and the rewards are not great.

Finding a repair shop is becoming impossible in many areas. And it
will get worse unless people are willing to pay the going rate.

The local repair shop here closed down, most people aren't prepared to pay
the going rate. Most electronic stuff has evolved/ devolved? to a single
board, so you can't simply slot in another module. The domestic VCR is very
much a case in point. And unless it's a simple capacitor fault, you've got
sm components to deal with with all the special tools that requires.