Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living,
Keith.
;-)


Don't talk so stupid, Plowie - I had 50 employees in two firms and
probably know a little bit more about paying staff than you do.

'Had' being the operative word.


'Operative' how? I'm retired Plowie - have been for 9 years now, I
don't
need staff. (If you'd worked a little harder in your youth maybe you
could be retired also...)

Why would I want to retire? I work in a job which involves that which
you
seem to spend all your time with - ie audio. So get paid for my hobby.
;-)

Sure....



Add to that I get charged for stuff like 'bike servicing and that
Swim
is in full time employ, so I'm not quite so out of touch as you'd
like
to think....

So pray tell what you feel a reasonable charge would be for this
repair -


Anything over 20 quid *absolute max* would be a waste of money - I
pointed to a number of eBay auctions where VCRs were sitting at 99p +
a
bit of postage...

I'm not disagreeing with that - just the principle. A repair shop is
in
business to make a living. Not dish out free advice on economics. The
person in question may well have wanted his VCR repaired for any
number of
reasons rather than buy new or secondhand. He might like the way it
operates, the facilities or just even the looks.


Why did he bother to mention it to me then?

FYI, I have lost count of the times I have bailed him out on all sorts
of problems. I know he doesn't have any spare money and in the last few
days he's had to fix his own cooker door, put tyres on his car to get it
through its MOT, had his VCR blow up and been strimmed 46 quid on his
lawnmower.

Sometimes it doesn't just come in threes...




and it might help if you said what it actually consisted of.


How TF should I know?

So HTF can you know what is a reasonable quote for the repair?


Plowie, sometime the *my time is worth XXX* horse**** doesn't stand;
sometimes it's a case of what the job will bear. I was given an SME arm
in bits in a paper bag a while back. I took a photo of them and emailed
a link to to to SME for an estimate to repair and rebuild; they emailed
back 'not worth the cost of repair'!




Plenty of
VCRs when they break are simply not economic to repair.


You got there in the end....

Err, you spend all your time doing uneconomic things. Why want
everyone
else to be different?


I told you already - I'm retired. I started earlier than most and worked
a damn sight harder than most and I don't expect to last as long as
most, so I **** my time away doing what pleases me (as well as the
chores around here). In the last week I have avoided agreeing to make
speakers for two different people - big difference making them for
myself or taking on a bloody *contract*!!




The 'Service Engineer' of that shop is one of the two brothers who
have
recently been *given it* by their father who is supposed to have
retired
(but is always hanging about in there). It is a goldmine - they
have
been strimming the local Chavs for decades; my neighbour has known
them
and dealt with them for 30 years. There comes a time you tell a
person
like that when an item is beyond economic repair, not just take
them
to
the cleaners. (Note the drastic 50 to 29 quid reduction...)

Doesn't your neighbour ever visit stores like Tesco etc and note
the
price
of a new VCR?

No idea.


And therefore is capable of deciding himself if he wants it
repaired
or not?


You're not really picking up on the dynamic here - the guy is 'old
school'; his instinct is to take a broken VCR to the local shop
(where
he bought it) for repair and where he has been a customer for 30
years.
He doesn't know about the current 'throway ethos' and had probably
paid
a ton for the machine when it was new. Where it falls on its arse is
the
shysters (you need to see them in action) in the shop are/were more
keen
to strim the old boy (a long-standing customer) for swift 50 quid
than
point him in a better direction.

There's an awful lot of 'probables' there.


No, only one and that's a banker - that shop only knows Top Dollar! I
have posted here more than once that I watched when the current owner
took 8 quid of a pensioner who lived opposite and knew them very well
for one of those ****ty bundles scart leads that come with the player.
They had a bucket full of them - all taken out of boxes and virtually
'thrown away' from installs, when a 50 quid Scart was no doubt used....



If you can see no wrong in that, then it tells a lot about you...

No - I just get fed up of those who can't do something telling someone
who
can what the job should be worth. And the assumption that someone 'old
school' doesn't know the value of things.


You are making a fair amount of assumptions yourself there. What my
neighbour isn't the tiniest bit aware of is the 'online world' and what
the *real prices* are these days. Don't keep trying to make yourself
look smart on this one Plowie - you know damn well 50 quid to repair a
VCR of some vintage is a crock...



Asitappens, Shiny Nigel who works at the shop is due round
tonight,
if he makes it (he's in a state with ME or summat, so there's a
chance he won't show) I'll ask him how it's going in the 'repair
department' (loft, actually). My guess is that if it's gone quiet
they'll have got got rid of the *girl* who did most of the
work....


Yes, she has left (some time ago) but it was her own idea,
apparently...

Answering your own points now? ;-)


Seems you have forgotten the fixed costs of running any business.


WTF would you know?

By your attitude. I gave you a rough idea of the sort of costs a
repair
shop might have which sets their rate for repairs. You seem to think
they
can do it for 1960 prices.


WTF are you talking about? I have stood in that shop and heard the owner
tell a number of people 'it costs 35 quid just to take the lid off' when
they have stood there with shrapnel that needs fixed...

Let's give you some *information* - I get this impression you think you
are talking to the butcher's boy at times....

I ran two companies with (as I have said before to give you an idea)
over 10,000 quid's worth of tyres on the road; I don't remember how
early in the game the *monthly* wages bill hit the £80,000 mark and
(surprisingly) have no idea what it was by close of play - all I know is
for '500' years nobody got ****ed around for their pay and I know the
pay was well in excess of industry norm *across the board*. Thus I have
signed many thousands of cheques, the biggest one (no problem
remembering it) was £280,000 for *one month's* supplies from *one
supplier* and I have paid more 'repair bills' than you could possibly
imagine.

Only today (never mind the date) the details came in for the repairs to
the *low speed* (under 10 mph) motorcycle drop I've just had:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops02.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops03.JPG


Now, Plowie - just how 'out of touch' do you think I *really* am...???

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in
message ...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Think you're a bit out of date as regards earning a living,
Keith. ;-)


Don't talk so stupid, Plowie - I had 50 employees in two firms
and
probably know a little bit more about paying staff than you do.

'Had' being the operative word.


'Operative' how? I'm retired Plowie - have been for 9 years now, I
don't need staff. (If you'd worked a little harder in your youth
maybe you could be retired also...)



Add to that I get charged for stuff like 'bike servicing and
that Swim
is in full time employ, so I'm not quite so out of touch as
you'd like
to think....

So pray tell what you feel a reasonable charge would be for this
repair -


Anything over 20 quid *absolute max* would be a waste of money - I
pointed to a number of eBay auctions where VCRs were sitting at
99p + a bit of postage...

**Yeah, right. Like one of my clients, who wanted a new tellie. I
discussed the situation at length and, due his TV room being large
and with floor to ceiling North facing windows, I suggested a large
plasma would be a good choice. He, being budget minded (dunno why,
what with his 5 million Dollar house, Merc SL500 and all) he
decided to buy a used projector. I advised against the projector,
due to the high cost of replacement lamps and the high ambient
light levels. Anyhoo, the whole thing went pear-shaped. Naturally,
the TV cannot be watched during daylight (even with the fancy new
screen). But wait, worse was to come. The projector ceased
functioning a few weeks later. I called in, climbed the ladder,
retrieved the projector and deduced that the lamp had gone
belly-up. My client protested that the lamp only had a couple of
hundred hours on it (according to the timer in the unit). I fitted
a new lamp and noted that the reset for the lamp hours was a manual
operation.......

Sheesh.


Not sure how any of that relates to a 99p VCR - at that price you
could probably afford to go through a couple or three of them to get
one that works well enough....

**99p PLUS freight. It all adds up to a compete waste of money, if
the things don't work. I've noticed that a favourite scam appears to
be loading the freight costs, such that serious profits are made in
that area.


Anyone with half a brain adds the cost of the item and shipping costs
to get a total and makes a decision - plenty of small things are on a
99p 'Buy It Now' with 9.99 postage....


I should add it scams eBay (apparently) - not the buyer...

Robber Baron craps out...
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:18:39 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

Only today (never mind the date) the details came in for the repairs to
the *low speed* (under 10 mph) motorcycle drop I've just had:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops02.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops03.JPG


Now, Plowie - just how 'out of touch' do you think I *really* am...???



Quid and a half for a label, over a quid for a screw, three hundred
and fifty for an oil cooler and three hundred quid for two inner
tubes. That's why my insurance premiums are so high then?

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
**Not that I enjoy agreeing with Keith, I understand where he is
coming
from. Let me explain:

As a service guy, I assess each job as it arrives. I offer two
options
to my clients:

1) A rough guesstimate of the job, based on the description of the
fault
and my experience with the particular piece of equipment. This is
free
(I know - stupid me). I also advise the client I feel the job is not
worth proceeding with. A surprising number of people will after
request
an item be serviced, even though it is not economical to do so. 2) A
full quote, which lists the parts required and the time taken to do
the
job. For this, I charge AUS$55.00 UP FRONT. That cost is deducted
from
the final cost. One of my mates in the business now makes more money
from quotes (which are not proceeded with) than he does from actual
repair work.

So how does this differ from the shop offering to fix the VCR for 50
quid?

IMO, if the story related by Keith is factual, then, IMO, the service
guy was morally wrong. Legally, probably not, however.

I really don't know how you can say that on the facts provided by
Keith.
It could be on enquiry the shop discovered the parts needed were now
discounted or whatever. I don't know, you don't know and Keith
certainly
doesn't. He's just venting his spleen on a shop he doesn't like.


No I'm not - that shop is no worse than some of the other St Neots shops
I've had dealings with. They've had a captive (Fenland) market for a
century and they have grown fat exploiting the ignorance/transportation
difficulties of their clientele. The proof of this particular pudding is
the price tumbled from 50 to 29 quid *after* my neighbour cancelled the
job - if it was due to 'unexpectedly low parts costs' or summat as
someone implied, how real is the chance they would have only taken 29
quid off my neighbour?

(Trust me, the 'motorcycle trade' could teach the 'audio trade' a few
things when it comes to strimming their punters for spares and
repairs...)



Let me also state, that fixing stuff is not the path to riches that
it
once was. It is hard work and the rewards are not great.

Finding a repair shop is becoming impossible in many areas. And it
will
get worse unless people are willing to pay the going rate.


Stuff isn't made to be *repairable* these days - not that I'm saying
that's a good thing; there's nothing I like better than a good fettle
that gets the job done, myself...

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:18:39 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

Only today (never mind the date) the details came in for the repairs
to
the *low speed* (under 10 mph) motorcycle drop I've just had:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops01.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops02.JPG

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Oops03.JPG


Now, Plowie - just how 'out of touch' do you think I *really* am...???



Quid and a half for a label, over a quid for a screw, three hundred
and fifty for an oil cooler and three hundred quid for two inner
tubes. That's why my insurance premiums are so high then?


No, your insurance premiums are high to cover all those arseholes in
London who don't have insurance and who leave a trail of damage to other
people's vehicles in their wake!

Asitappens, those prices are bugger-all in the sphere of 'bike spares -
I just phoned Tone the Clone for the silliest price he could think of
and he said they're all silly and mentioned a clutch lever for an
Italian bike (Aptilia) at 70 quid as a fairly good example. (That would
almost certainly have been made for pence in the Far East or India!!) On
my own bike there is a black box under the seat half the size of a DVD
case - does the fuelling and everything else. I said to Tony one time
'This is what I swap if I want more speed?', he said 'Yes, if you
*really* want it - they cost about 1,200 quid'!!

(Believe me, the audio trade is *miles* behind when it comes to prices -
a whole 'bike bought over the spares counter would easily cost 10 times
the price of a new 'bike!!)

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Keith G" wrote

Asitappens, those prices are bugger-all in the sphere of 'bike
spares - I just phoned Tone the Clone for the silliest price he could
think of and he said they're all silly and mentioned a clutch lever
for an Italian bike (Aptilia) at 70 quid as a fairly good example.
(That would almost certainly have been made for pence in the Far East
or India!!) On my own bike there is a black box under the seat half
the size of a DVD case - does the fuelling and everything else. I said
to Tony one time 'This is what I swap if I want more speed?', he said
'Yes, if you *really* want it - they cost about 1,200 quid'!!


Make that 'Aprilia' and, no, I don't want/need more speed - I wuz just
asking!!

(The bike make 98 bhp as is - apparently you can put 400 bhp through
them if you really need to!! :-)

Robber Baron craps out...
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:06:24 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, your insurance premiums are high to cover all those arseholes in
London who don't have insurance and who leave a trail of damage to other
people's vehicles in their wake!

Uninsured drivers make no difference to premiums. Actually, if
anything they can only make them lower. Think about it. If both
drivers are insured, insurance companies pay for all the damage. If
only one is insured, they probably only have to pay for the damage in
about seventy percent of cases - third-party only owners have to meet
their own uninsured losses.

And it makes no difference what insurance company you are with, the
risks are all laid off in the underwriting markets around the world.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Robber Baron craps out...
 

On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:17:24 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote

Asitappens, those prices are bugger-all in the sphere of 'bike
spares - I just phoned Tone the Clone for the silliest price he could
think of and he said they're all silly and mentioned a clutch lever
for an Italian bike (Aptilia) at 70 quid as a fairly good example.
(That would almost certainly have been made for pence in the Far East
or India!!) On my own bike there is a black box under the seat half
the size of a DVD case - does the fuelling and everything else. I said
to Tony one time 'This is what I swap if I want more speed?', he said
'Yes, if you *really* want it - they cost about 1,200 quid'!!


Make that 'Aprilia' and, no, I don't want/need more speed - I wuz just
asking!!

(The bike make 98 bhp as is - apparently you can put 400 bhp through
them if you really need to!! :-)


Maybe, but probably only the once.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:17:24 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote

Asitappens, those prices are bugger-all in the sphere of 'bike
spares - I just phoned Tone the Clone for the silliest price he
could
think of and he said they're all silly and mentioned a clutch lever
for an Italian bike (Aptilia) at 70 quid as a fairly good example.
(That would almost certainly have been made for pence in the Far
East
or India!!) On my own bike there is a black box under the seat half
the size of a DVD case - does the fuelling and everything else. I
said
to Tony one time 'This is what I swap if I want more speed?', he
said
'Yes, if you *really* want it - they cost about 1,200 quid'!!


Make that 'Aprilia' and, no, I don't want/need more speed - I wuz just
asking!!

(The bike make 98 bhp as is - apparently you can put 400 bhp through
them if you really need to!! :-)


Maybe, but probably only the once.



Noop, it's an everyday thing in some circles:

http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/cate...?idCategory=59

http://www.tts-performance.com/catal...oducts_id=4245


See this also (not the GSX1400 but nice anyway!):

http://www.bigccracing.com/shop/cate...?idCategory=66


(Dig the 'mild to wild' descriptive!! :-)

Robber Baron craps out...
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 12:06:24 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

No, your insurance premiums are high to cover all those arseholes in
London who don't have insurance and who leave a trail of damage to
other
people's vehicles in their wake!

Uninsured drivers make no difference to premiums. Actually, if
anything they can only make them lower. Think about it. If both
drivers are insured, insurance companies pay for all the damage. If
only one is insured, they probably only have to pay for the damage in
about seventy percent of cases - third-party only owners have to meet
their own uninsured losses.


See this: "He added: "Our members see the effects of uninsured driving
on their clients every day. Not only do uninsured drivers add an
estimated £30 to every motor policy premium of honest motorists, they
can also cost insured drivers thousands if they are involved in an
accident with them."
He

http://www.nu-riskservices.co.uk/new...94732856_1.htm


And it makes no difference what insurance company you are with, the
risks are all laid off in the underwriting markets around the world.


Yep. As is the flooding, terrorism and everything else - you see it on
the News on the telly, you pay for it later...