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What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some
sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Come on guy's if you really don't like quality sound give it a rest and talk about something else on another group! Maybe there's a group about saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to annoy everyone? Maybe their's a group about nerds who just like to see their own posts on a screen!! Borosteve. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:33:48 -0800 (PST), borosteve
wrote: Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Come on guy's if you really don't like quality sound give it a rest and talk about something else on another group! Maybe there's a group about saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to annoy everyone? Maybe their's a group about nerds who just like to see their own posts on a screen!! Borosteve. Which appears to be exactly what you have just done. Nice one. Incidentally, in case you didn't know it, audio (the title of this group) is the science and engineering of sound. If you want somewhere warm and fluffy where you can talk about nice things try one of the religious groups. See how long you last there before you hanker for some sanity. d -- Pearce Consulting http://www.pearce.uk.com |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
"borosteve" wrote in message
... Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Come on guy's if you really don't like quality sound give it a rest and talk about something else on another group! Maybe there's a group about saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to annoy everyone? Maybe their's a group about nerds who just like to see their own posts on a screen!! Borosteve. Speaking only for myself, I am most definitely *not* anti hifi sound, but anti the non-scientific and engineering based opinions which, when analysed objectively, i.e. using measurements, do not prove what is being alleged. For many years (even before the '70s) audio engineering professionals were aware of the limits of perception of human hearing, and that, provided the equipment measured below that threshold, then any reduction in distortions, noise, frequency response errors etc. would not be perceived. For amplifiers we reached those figures many many years ago, consequently, until we started seeing designs which deliberately introduce audible distortions, the only difference between amplifiers was one of loudness, subject of course to the amplifier being used within it's design parameters for level and load impedance. So, what's the point of discussing amplifier sound? When CD was launched, it *was* "pure, perfect sound forever", compared with the limitations of vinyl, cassettes and FM radio. There was certainly a question about the quality of the first CDs, some of which were made from equalised and compressed disk-cutting masters out of ignorance of the new medium, but that is a separate issue. D-A conversion did improve from the first 14bit x 4 oversampling, but we have had 24 bit 96k or better converters for years now, so CD playback quality would be pretty much a dead issue, if it wasn't for CD production now having gone silly with over-levels, clipping etc. It seems that CD players can sound different in their handling of these over-levels, and that is an interesting area for study, but it needs instrumentation and measurements, not subjective opinions if we're ever to characterise and understand fully the processes involved. In my view, the valid subjects for discussions of sound quality are loudspeakers, which are still far behind complete transparancy, vinyl reproduction, which will never be transparent, and data-reduced digital formats which *can* be transparent, but seldom are. Measurements give a repeatable, verifiable indication of performance. Double-blind controlled listening tests can highlight differences which may have escaped measurement, but note that *everything* can be measured. If something is audible, then it is measurable. It may be difficult to measure, and perhaps new instruments have to be invented. As a case in point, measurements of data-reduced formats could not be done with the conventional analogue-based equipments, so new analysers had to be invented. The converse, that everything measurable is audible is *not* true as there are clearly understood thresholds of hearing. So, when someone posts a purely subjective view of what something sound like, you can expect those of us with a more engineering-based view of audio to comment. Otherwise, people might go on believing that cables sound different..... S. -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
"borosteve" wrote in message
Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Where did you get that idea? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Where did you get the idea that audio was like that back in the 1970s? |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
In article
, borosteve wrote: Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Come on guy's if you really don't like quality sound give it a rest and talk about something else on another group! Maybe there's a group about saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to annoy everyone? Maybe their's a group about nerds who just like to see their own posts on a screen!! Well, we could talk about the misuse of the apostrophe, for a start. -- *If you must choose between two evils, pick the one you've never tried before Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
borosteve wrote: Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Whay exactly do you think you can hear that's not capable of being measured ? Today's test equipment can resolve non-linearities as small as 130dB below the signal level which VASTLY exceeds the abilities of human hearing. Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them. Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Arny Krueger wrote: "borosteve" wrote Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Where did you get that idea? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Where did you get the idea that audio was like that back in the 1970s? If anything, back then EVEN MORE attention was paid to the 'numbers'. Today, most serious audio kit is actually so good that one need not overly concern oneself with frequency response, signal to noise ratio or distortion since even run-of-the-mill kit is very competent in these regards (aside from audiophool stuff like tube amps for example which can have dismal numbers). Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: borosteve wrote: Why is it that most of the contributors to this group seem to be some sort of anti- hifi sound quality brigade who seem to think that all cd players sound the same and that measurements and specs of components are king? Have we reverted back to the 1970's when all you had to worry about was how many watts your speakers could handle? Come on guy's if you really don't like quality sound give it a rest and talk about something else on another group! Maybe there's a group about saddo's who just post controvertial stuff to annoy everyone? Maybe their's a group about nerds who just like to see their own posts on a screen!! Well, we could talk about the misuse of the apostrophe, for a start. Pluralisation by apostrophe ! Often called the greengrocer's apostrophe. Seen recently in a pub (honestly) .... " Fish and Chip's ". http://homepage.ntlworld.com/vivian....ostGrocers.htm Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
"Eeyore" wrote in message
... Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them. Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a review, it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the "sound" of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system using this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So all the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables. That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines. David. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On 21 Dec, 09:23, "David Looser" wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in message ... Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them. Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a review, it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the "sound" of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system using this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So all the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables. That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines. David. WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all these years. Thanx guys, Borosteve. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
"borosteve" wrote in message
... On 21 Dec, 09:23, "David Looser" wrote: "Eeyore" wrote in message ... Reviewers who talk of differences in pace, rhythym, speed, darkness and the like are simply blowing nonsense out of their backsides. If the they found no differences, they'd be out of a job, so they make them up and call them non-scientific names and claim they can't be measured so as to ensure their next pay check. Charlatans, the lot of them. Agreed 100%. I remember the first time I met this sort of thing in a review, it was for the original Linn Sondeck turntable. After describing the "sound" of this turntable in the sort of overblown language previously only seen from wine reviewers, the reviewer went on to claim that *any* system using this turntable would sound better than any other system that didn't. So all the deficiencies of a cheap arm, cartridge, amp or speakers apparently mattered less than the supposed inferiority of all other turntables. That was the day I stopped buying Hi-Fi magazines. David. WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all these years. Thanx guys, Borosteve. Glad to have been able to help! S -- http://audiopages.googlepages.com |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:22:02 -0800 (PST), borosteve
wrote: WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all these years. No stirring really. That's just the common opinion of people who work with audio as opposed to audiophile hobbyists. Source quality matters (and I mean the recording, not what plays it.) Speaker choice and placement matters. Everything else needs to be competent, and mostly is these days. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On 21 Dec, 11:46, Laurence Payne NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote:
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:22:02 -0800 (PST), borosteve wrote: WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all these years. No stirring really. That's just the common opinion of people who work with audio as opposed to audiophile hobbyists. Source quality matters (and I mean the recording, not what plays it.) Speaker choice and placement matters. Everything else needs to be competent, and mostly is these days. What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are there to hear.Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/ sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3.... Merry Xmas, Borosteve. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
"borosteve" wrote in message
... What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people that repair equipment, like a service engineer? He probably means people who design and build audio equipment (there seem to be quite a lot on this NG). If its the latter then fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are there to hear. So who are you? and why do you do these demonstrations?, are you trying to sell them something?. A good salesman knows how to manipulate his customers. And *how* do you do these demonstrations?, do the audience know what they are listening to?, how accurately do you match sound levels etc. Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/ sows ear). As is room acoustics. Why don't audiophiles spend their time worrying about the sound of the carpet, or the wallpaper, which makes far more difference to the sound than competent amplifiers or cables?. I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3.... And do they still sound the same after your "guy" has repaired them?. If he can't tell the difference how does he know if they are working the way they should? David. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:26:19 -0800 (PST), borosteve
wrote: What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are there to hear.Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/ sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3.... So which of those colours the sound enough to be noticable? |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:26:19 -0800 (PST), borosteve
wrote: I can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are there to hear. Why? Do you sell the stuff? |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 14:56:47 -0000, "David Looser"
wrote: Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/ sows ear). As is room acoustics. Why don't audiophiles spend their time worrying about the sound of the carpet, or the wallpaper, which makes far more difference to the sound than competent amplifiers or cables?. I've wondered about this too. Even if a cable or (God help us!) power lead COULD make a difference, a small change in speaker positioning (or listener positioning) makes a vastly greater one. But the audiophile comics aren't full of adverts for bass traps and other room treatments. I don't know why, they can be gratifingly expensive :-) |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
- snip - I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3.... My word, a trip back to the seventies.... Quad - a straight wire plus gain. Naim (and its chum Linn) - "if you can't hear or understand the difference you're stupid". Audio's version of Jehova's Witnesses. Experiences? Many years of listening to and enjoying music, plus a distinct aversion to bovine ordure. Geoff MacK |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
In article
, borosteve wrote: No stirring really. That's just the common opinion of people who work with audio as opposed to audiophile hobbyists. Source quality matters (and I mean the recording, not what plays it.) Speaker choice and placement matters. Everything else needs to be competent, and mostly is these days. What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are there to hear. Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/ sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3.... Strangely enough even Mr Vereker couldn't tell the difference between his NAP 250 and a Quad 303 once the frequency response error on his amp was equalised out... -- *Sleep with a photographer and watch things develop Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:42:06 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote: Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. I've found that, given a system without gross distortion, they home in on the music and are rather uninterested in audiophile issues. I've never met one who had the slightest idea what jargon like "speed" meant. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
borosteve wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: borosteve wrote: WOW! That stirred things up a bit!! So there we have it,Cd players all sound the same,as do amplifiers.Cables make no difference but speakers make all the difference. Now I now where I've been gong wrong all these years. No stirring really. That's just the common opinion of people who work with audio as opposed to audiophile hobbyists. Source quality matters (and I mean the recording, not what plays it.) Speaker choice and placement matters. Everything else needs to be competent, and mostly is these days. What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people that repair equipment, like a service engineer? Pro-audio circuit / equipment designer here (mixers and power amplifiers mainly but recently did some DSP and wrote my own reverb algorithms) and occasional live sound mixing engineer. I've recently also been active again in the recording studio business. Currently designing a microprocessor controlled (ramps the voltages and allows remote power up/down of multiple supplies) very low noise kilowatt power level multi-rail power supply for large Neve consoles (they need up to 3 of them) as an replacement alternative to the original offering (they get 'tired' after many years). Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Laurence Payne wrote: borosteve wrote: What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are there to hear.Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/ sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3.... So which of those colours the sound enough to be noticable? Given that it would be unlikely that they're level matched, isn't the one that plays a fraction louder usually mean to sound 'better' ? Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: borosteve wrote: No stirring really. That's just the common opinion of people who work with audio as opposed to audiophile hobbyists. Source quality matters (and I mean the recording, not what plays it.) Speaker choice and placement matters. Everything else needs to be competent, and mostly is these days. What do you mean by "work with audio"? Do you mean people who use audio in their work? i.e.musicians,producers etc?Or do you mean people that repair equipment, like a service engineer? If its the latter then fair enough. The guy who does my servicing can't tell the difference between a radiogram and a high end set-up! If its the former then I can tell you that I have done MANY comparative audio demonstrations of cd players,amplifiers and the rest to PROFFESSIONAL musicians (most you will have heard of!) and they appreciate the differences that are there to hear. Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. Indeed. Many of them have hearing loss from playing too. Of course recording quality is paramount (silk purse/ sows ear). I suppose its all about experiences, but if you can't tell the difference in sound between a Quad 34/306 and a Naim nait3.... Strangely enough even Mr Vereker couldn't tell the difference between his NAP 250 and a Quad 303 once the frequency response error on his amp was equalised out... LMAO ! Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Laurence Payne wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. I've found that, given a system without gross distortion, they home in on the music and are rather uninterested in audiophile issues. I've never met one who had the slightest idea what jargon like "speed" meant. Does anyone here know what 'speed' means or is supposed to mean ? There was a time of course when 'speed accuracy' was an important spec for turntables. Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
In article ,
Eeyore wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. I've found that, given a system without gross distortion, they home in on the music and are rather uninterested in audiophile issues. I've never met one who had the slightest idea what jargon like "speed" meant. Does anyone here know what 'speed' means or is supposed to mean ? No. Nor any of the other flowery terms so beloved of some. And when you ask for an explanation in terms most could actually understand you get none. Suggesting that these things simply don't exist apart from in the minds of those using them. -- *If all the world is a stage, where is the audience sitting? Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Dec 21, 4:57�pm, Eeyore
wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. I've found that, given a system without gross distortion, they home in on the music and are rather uninterested in audiophile issues. �I've never met one who had the slightest idea what jargon like "speed" meant. Does anyone here know what 'speed' means or is supposed to mean ? There was a time of course when 'speed accuracy' was an important spec for turntables. Graham Hmmmm - don't let Jeff Medwin and all his low DCR power supply theory hear you saying that.................... |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Andy Evans wrote: Eeyore wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. I've found that, given a system without gross distortion, they home in on the music and are rather uninterested in audiophile issues. �I've never met one who had the slightest idea what jargon like "speed" meant. Does anyone here know what 'speed' means or is supposed to mean ? There was a time of course when 'speed accuracy' was an important spec for turntables. Graham Hmmmm - don't let Jeff Medwin and all his low DCR power supply theory hear you saying that.................... What's this "low DCR power supply theory" stuff ? Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Dec 21, 11:05Â*pm, Eeyore
wrote: Andy Evans wrote: Eeyore wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. I've found that, given a system without gross distortion, they home in on the music and are rather uninterested in audiophile issues. �I've never met one who had the slightest idea what jargon like "speed" meant. Does anyone here know what 'speed' means or is supposed to mean ? There was a time of course when 'speed accuracy' was an important spec for turntables. Graham Hmmmm - don't let Jeff Medwin and all his low DCR power supply theory hear you saying that.................... What's this "low DCR power supply theory" stuff ? Graham- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's been all over audioasylum.com, forum DIY tubes if you do a search. Loads of juicy arguments on both sides to get your teeth into! |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Andy Evans wrote:
On Dec 21, 4:57�pm, Eeyore wrote: Laurence Payne wrote: "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote: Strange. In my experience of pro musicians they are no better than any other at determining decent audio. Often rather worse. I've found that, given a system without gross distortion, they home in on the music and are rather uninterested in audiophile issues. �I've never met one who had the slightest idea what jargon like "speed" meant. Does anyone here know what 'speed' means or is supposed to mean ? There was a time of course when 'speed accuracy' was an important spec for turntables. Graham Hmmmm - don't let Jeff Medwin and all his low DCR power supply theory hear you saying that.................... Andy, no, jut don't invite trouble... -- Nick |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Pro-audio circuit / equipment designer here With so much to do how do you find the time to be here so often? Steve |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Stevie Boy wrote: Pro-audio circuit / equipment designer here With so much to do how do you find the time to be here so often? It's not THAT much to do ! Besides, too much work and no play makes one a dull boy. Usenet is an exceptionally valuable resource IMHO. I have occasionally received invaluable design advice in sci.electronics.design for example where I am a regular contributor too. Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
It's not THAT much to do ! Besides, too much work and no play makes one a dull boy. Too much play & not enough work it sounds like to me ;-) |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Stevie Boy wrote: It's not THAT much to do ! Besides, too much work and no play makes one a dull boy. Too much play & not enough work it sounds like to me ;-) Ssshhhh - don't tell everyone ! ;~) Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:46:41 +0000, Eeyore wrote:
Stevie Boy wrote: Pro-audio circuit / equipment designer here With so much to do how do you find the time to be here so often? It's not THAT much to do ! Besides, too much work and no play makes one a dull boy. You do seem to appear on rather a lot of newsgroups, the subjects of which you're always an expert. :-) |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Silk wrote: Eeyore wrote: Stevie Boy wrote: Pro-audio circuit / equipment designer here With so much to do how do you find the time to be here so often? It's not THAT much to do ! Besides, too much work and no play makes one a dull boy. You do seem to appear on rather a lot of newsgroups, the subjects of which you're always an expert. :-) Can't help being an expert on certain matters my friend. My official job title is electronics consultant. Mind you, even a little *sound* scientific knowledge makes anyone an 'expert' compared to the mass of k00ks posting on Usenet. Graham |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Eeyore wrote:
Silk wrote: Eeyore wrote: Stevie Boy wrote: Pro-audio circuit / equipment designer here With so much to do how do you find the time to be here so often? It's not THAT much to do ! Besides, too much work and no play makes one a dull boy. You do seem to appear on rather a lot of newsgroups, the subjects of which you're always an expert. :-) Can't help being an expert on certain matters my friend. My official job title is electronics consultant. Mind you, even a little *sound* scientific knowledge makes anyone an 'expert' compared to the mass of k00ks posting on Usenet. Graham I am not picking a fight, as I don't know how it is in the commercial electronics world, but in IT, anyone that calls themself a "consultant" is normally far from expert. -- Nick |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:43:47 +0000, Nick Gorham wrote:
I am not picking a fight, as I don't know how it is in the commercial electronics world, but in IT, anyone that calls themself a "consultant" is normally far from expert. Indeed. In the IT industry a "consultant" is someone whose job it is to find the relevant expert. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Silk wrote:
On Sat, 22 Dec 2007 23:43:47 +0000, Nick Gorham wrote: I am not picking a fight, as I don't know how it is in the commercial electronics world, but in IT, anyone that calls themself a "consultant" is normally far from expert. Indeed. In the IT industry a "consultant" is someone whose job it is to find the relevant expert. Good description that :-) -- Nick |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Apart from in Medicine, "consultant" is pretty meaningless since it
has been hijacked by anyone with any qualifications who sets up in business as a person people should ask advice from. There's no guarantee of status or even competence - strictly caveat emptor. For that reason it's much more important to have academic qualifications and memberships of professional bodies. You can't argue with those. |
What a sad excuse for a group this is...
Andy Evans wrote:
Apart from in Medicine, "consultant" is pretty meaningless since it has been hijacked by anyone with any qualifications who sets up in business as a person people should ask advice from. There's no guarantee of status or even competence - strictly caveat emptor. For that reason it's much more important to have academic qualifications and memberships of professional bodies. You can't argue with those. Again, you clearly don't work in IT Andy :-) -- Nick |
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