Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:07:03 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

No idea - all I know is CDs have virtually no 'soundstaging' at all,
compared with almost all vinyl...??

Really?

Do you think this is due to technical issues with the medium? What
happens when you dub one of your favourite vinyl recordings to
digital?

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

"Laurence Payne" NOSPAMlpayne1ATdsl.pipex.com wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 18:07:03 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

No idea - all I know is CDs have virtually no 'soundstaging' at all,
compared with almost all vinyl...??

Really?



Prepared to be proved wrong, as always - do you have any suggestions?



Do you think this is due to technical issues with the medium? What
happens when you dub one of your favourite vinyl recordings to
digital?


It becomes a CD, but the familiarity of the sound seems to make them sound
better than the 'straight CD' equivalent. (Probably in the mastering
differences?) I shall have to try it again and see - all I know is that
vinyl digitised onto the computer sounds pretty good, usually....

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

"Eeyore" wrote in
message

I can only imagine LPs being of interest to mostly
somewhat deaf people these days.

Agreed that it takes considerable ear damage for a sane person to perceive
that LPs categorically sound better than CDs.

I can see the nostalgia aspect to playing LPs, and I can see the situation
where people have musical performances that they prefer, but were never
adequately re-released on CD.

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

"David Looser" wrote in
message
"Keith G" wrote in message
...


My only problem with CD is they don't hold my attention.
I can listen to them for sounds but, for some strange
reason, I don't take them seriously for music!

Because you have an emotional attachment to the *idea* of
vinyl, because you like the ritual of cleaning the disc,
watching it turn, lowering the stylus into it etc? Perhaps CDs are simply
too easy to play for your liking.
And it's not like the (far) superior soundstaging of
vinyl has anything to do with it,

How do you work that one out? Vinyl has a poor crosstalk
figure (typically around 25-30dB) whilst with CD the
crosstalk is as good as the producer of the recording
wants it to be. How does that create "(far) superior
soundstaging" for vinyl?

Typically, the channel separation of vinyl LPs has been compromised for the
sake of trackability.

Vinyl typically has both static and dynamic channel imbalance problems. You
can expect a CD player to have 80 dB separation, and nearly perfect
channel balance. In contrast even 20 dB channel separation with vinyl exists
only at middle frequencies, and the two channels can be counted on to not
have the same frequency response. Finally, as the cartrdige tracks warps and
eccentricities, additional dynamic channel balance errors are added.

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

On Fri, 04 Jan 2008 11:41:49 GMT, Bob Latham
wrote:

If you guys say so. I would say enormous numbers of people prefer LPs to
Cds. I would go as far as to say most people that I know do. Apart from on
this group I've never ever heard anyone say they prefer CD for sound
quality. Durability, lack of clicks, playing time and even simplicity but
never ever sound quality.

What the reason for this is I don't know. It could be a liking for
coloration or it could be that there is something wrong with the sound of
CD. Certainly from 1982 to 1987 my wife could only spend a few minutes
listening to CD before leaving the room, she thought CD was so awful until
we got the Meridian 207/8.

Yeah. But what about NOW, using a commodity CD player?

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

"Bob Latham" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
"Eeyore" wrote in
message

I can only imagine LPs being of interest to mostly
somewhat deaf people these days.

Agreed that it takes considerable ear damage for a sane person to
perceive that LPs categorically sound better than CDs.

I can see the nostalgia aspect to playing LPs, and I can see the
situation where people have musical performances that they prefer, but
were never adequately re-released on CD.

If you guys say so. I would say enormous numbers of people prefer LPs to
Cds.


Sure - the majority of people I know (who care about music) do....


I would go as far as to say most people that I know do. Apart from on
this group I've never ever heard anyone say they prefer CD for sound
quality. Durability, lack of clicks, playing time and even simplicity but
never ever sound quality.

What the reason for this is I don't know. It could be a liking for
coloration or it could be that there is something wrong with the sound of
CD. Certainly from 1982 to 1987 my wife could only spend a few minutes
listening to CD before leaving the room, she thought CD was so awful until
we got the Meridian 207/8.



Reference to your partner's preferences is (a priori) ruled out by the Vinyl
Shriekers I think you'll find, but let's not forget the far superior
'information carrying' capacity of CDs - the average LP lasts approximately
7 minutes per side; the average music CD lasts 3 days....

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

"Bob Latham" wrote in message
...

If you guys say so. I would say enormous numbers of people prefer LPs to
Cds. I would go as far as to say most people that I know do. Apart from on
this group I've never ever heard anyone say they prefer CD for sound
quality. Durability, lack of clicks, playing time and even simplicity but
never ever sound quality.

What the reason for this is I don't know. It could be a liking for
coloration

I guess it must be.

or it could be that there is something wrong with the sound of
CD.

Sonically speaking CDs hardly exist, they don't really have a "sound". They
are simply a carrier of 2 channel 16-bit/44100 sample/sec uncompressed
digital audio.

Certainly from 1982 to 1987 my wife could only spend a few minutes
listening to CD before leaving the room, she thought CD was so awful until
we got the Meridian 207/8.

Individual CD players can have a "sound", particularly those early ones with
wholly analogue "brick-wall" filtering and only 1 D-A converter time-shared
between the two channels.

And as has been discussed here at length the mastering of CDs can often
leave a lot to be desired. But none of this is the fault of the CD.

David.

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

Bob Latham wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

I can see the nostalgia aspect to playing LPs, and I can see the
situation where people have musical performances that they prefer, but
were never adequately re-released on CD.

If you guys say so. I would say enormous numbers of people prefer LPs to
Cds. I would go as far as to say most people that I know do.

I know NO-ONE who thiks that !


Apart from on
this group I've never ever heard anyone say they prefer CD for sound
quality. Durability, lack of clicks, playing time and even simplicity but
never ever sound quality.

Since when were scratches not deleterious to audio quality ?

Things I recall about LPs that were total rubbish include surface noise and
absence of disc flatness that you could hear as kind of slow whoosh in the
background.

My kit was good enough that hum wasn't a problem but signal to noise ratio is
vastly inferior to CD. There is also NO WAY that an LP even played with the
very best gear will come remotely close to a CD's flat frequency response and
low distortion. Also, the sensitive unbaalanced phono preamp is particularly
vulnerable to demodulating things like passing taxi radios.

The short playing time is a pain too. And playing them wears them out
eventually.

Graham

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

Bob Latham wrote:

Certainly from 1982 to 1987 my wife could only spend a few minutes
listening to CD before leaving the room, she thought CD was so awful until
we got the Meridian 207/8.

Why are you judging CDs by 25 year old technology.

Would you play an LP with a steel needle ?

Graham

Improving loudspeaker crossovers (SBL's)
 

Keith G wrote:

"Bob Latham" wrote

If you guys say so. I would say enormous numbers of people prefer LPs to
Cds.

Sure - the majority of people I know (who care about music) do....

Are they all very old people like you ? Maybe their hearing loss is masking some
of the more obvious defects ?

Graham