borosteve wrote:
On 30 Mar, 01:13, max graff wrote:
Dear all,

A friend of mine suggested using QED silver Anniversary XT for my
speaker cables. Having used Chords Chameleons for interconnects I have
some how developed a soft corner for Chord Company cables.

Any suggestions on which of the Chord speaker cables would match the
rave reviews and sound quality of QED Silvers?

Regards Max

Max,
This is the wrong place I'm afraid to ask that kind of question as the
guys that frequent most of this group believe that if you can't
measure it then you can't hear it. NOT my belief so I will give you my
opinion. Having used a lot of cables over the years, I have found that
most silver coated type cables can have a brighter more forward sound
which suits some tastes but not all. The all copper types tend to be
more neutral.I know that I will now get a plethora of posts telling me
how wrong MY OPINION is but there you go.

How about some posts asking if you have done any measurements or testing?
How about a short recording via a sound-card of the signal at the
speaker terminals
using two cables that you can tell apart so we can share the effect?
How about taking Pinkerton's money?

--
Eiron.

In article
,
borosteve wrote:
On 30 Mar, 01:13, max graff wrote:
Dear all,

A friend of mine suggested using QED silver Anniversary XT for my
speaker cables. Having used Chords Chameleons for interconnects I have
some how developed a soft corner for Chord Company cables.

Any suggestions on which of the Chord speaker cables would match the
rave reviews and sound quality of QED Silvers?

Regards Max

Max, This is the wrong place I'm afraid to ask that kind of question as
the guys that frequent most of this group believe that if you can't
measure it then you can't hear it.

Can't speak for anyone else. But that would certainly misrepresent my own
assessment of the issue.

AIUI The assessable evidence is clear enough.

That when:

1) You arrange for the comparisons to be done in a way that controls or
excludes or otherwise deals with well know factors of other kinds. (e.g
being the changes in hearing physiology produced to exposure to sound which
may cause someone to hear the *same* sound when repeated as being
'different')

2) You level match and do the test so that the decisions are based on the
sounds alone.

3) You do the comparisons in a way that allows for statistical assessment.

The the results I have seen (and when I have done such comparisons) are
that people generally fail to show any ability to consistently hear
'differences' between cables except those associated with well-known
factors - e.g being a significant change in series resistance or inductance
for LS cables that changes the frequency response.

The point of (1) and (2) is to avoid simple mistakes which otherwise lead
people to decide that a 'difference' was for a reason other than the actual
one.

Of course, if you cannae be bothered to do 1/2/3 nor understand what
factors may make the results misleading and deal with them, then you can
easily 'hear a difference' and decide it was due to a change of cable, when
it might have been for a number of other reasons.

Since - in my experience at least - most of the 'reviews' in magazines and
the tests reported by cable vendors fail to deal with 1/2/3. And most of
the 'home comparisons' people have reported here also fail to do so, their
results don't really provide us with reliable evidence that the conclusions
stand up. Thus they tell us what the reporter *thinks* is the case, not
provide any evidence if this assertion is well founded, or a simple
mistake.

If anything, my experience is quite the contrary of your assertion. That it
is easy to measure differences which then listeners show no reliable sign
of being to hear. :-)

I have, of course, seen many assertions and claims based on uncontrolled or
inapproriate 'comparisons' that are then accompanied by no assessable
evidence other than the assertion. But rather than dealing in such
'beliefs' I tend to fall back on relying upon the actual assessable
evidence - including my own experience and that of others when I have tried
things out on them.



NOT my belief so I will give you my opinion. Having used a lot of cables
over the years, I have found that most silver coated type cables can
have a brighter more forward sound which suits some tastes but not all.
The all copper types tend to be more neutral.I know that I will now get
a plethora of posts telling me how wrong MY OPINION is but there you go.

Can't comment on your 'opinion'. Can only ask what evidence you have that
anyone else could assess to determine

A) its statistical significance

B) the risk that any 'difference' was for some reason other than the change
of cables. e.g. you moved your head slightly, or something else changed
like a change in your hearing physiology due to exposure to previous
sounds, etc, etc.

The problem, therefore is that although you introduce words like 'belief'
and 'opinion' I personally prefer to decide on the basis of assessable
evidence. Not on what beliefs or opinions others may have, or the
assertions they make. People believe all kinds of things, often
contradicting one another when doing so. Hence that isn't much use for
determining which views are reliable or accurate. Just for knowing what
their *believe* to be so, irrespective of if it is as they think.

Simple enough, I think. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

"Eiron" wrote in message

borosteve wrote:


This is the wrong place I'm afraid to ask that kind of
question as the guys that frequent most of this group
believe that if you can't measure it then you can't hear
it.

That's the sort of thing that well-informed people believe.

NOT my belief so I will give you my opinion.

Well, here's a problem. If you evaluate speaker cables like most audiophiles
do, the results of your test will probably be very similar to what you
believed before the evaluation. That's because most audiophile evaluations
lack bias controls.

Having used a lot of cables over the years, I have found that
most silver coated type cables can have a brighter more
forward sound which suits some tastes but not all.

There's absolutly no science whatsoever to supprt that opinion.

The all copper types tend to be more neutral.I know that I
will now get a plethora of posts telling me how wrong MY
OPINION is but there you go.

Opinons can't be wrong if they are honestly expressed, but you may want to
check out what they are relevant to.

How about some posts asking if you have done any
measurements or testing?

I have.

How about a short recording via
a sound-card of the signal at the speaker terminals
using two cables that you can tell apart so we can share
the effect?

A study in futility.

How about taking Pinkerton's money?

Show me a Pinkerton to take money from.

max graff wrote:
Dear all,

A friend of mine suggested using QED silver Anniversary XT for my
speaker cables. Having used Chords Chameleons for interconnects I have
some how developed a soft corner for Chord Company cables.

Any suggestions on which of the Chord speaker cables would match the
rave reviews and sound quality of QED Silvers?

Regards Max

There's little doubt that differences between cables do exist. The issue
is whether such differences are audible, and whether perception changes
the aural experience.

There's been a challenge laid down for some time (noted elsewhere in
this thread) with cash waiting for anyone who can identify a difference
between certain cables under controlled 'blind' conditions. Nobody's
even taken it - or if they have, it's been kept very quiet!

It could also be suggested that reviews are not based on reliable and
replicable tests.

Personally, I doubt much if any difference in sound exists. I have
thought I've been able to detect something (with biwiring, silver
cables), but I've never been able to reliably pin it down to the speaker
cable. Interconnects *may* be a different matter, particularly with low
level phono signals.

Also, you may buy cables for status, engineering or appearance for
example. Nothing wrong with that - it's your money. Just so long as you
know why you're spending it :-)

Rob

In article , Rob
wrote:


Personally, I doubt much if any difference in sound exists. I have
thought I've been able to detect something (with biwiring, silver
cables), but I've never been able to reliably pin it down to the speaker
cable. Interconnects *may* be a different matter, particularly with low
level phono signals.

When the signal source is something like a moving magnet cartridge then it
is quite plausible that the connecting cables can make a difference. Such
cartridges are very sensitive to load capacitance, and the frequency
response can easily be changed by changing this capacitance.

I have seen co-ax cables with capacitances from 300 pF/m to 100 pF/m.
So with such a source, changing one cable for another could easily make a
difference that would be audible. Easy enough to measure the changes
produced.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

Rob wrote:

max graff wrote:

A friend of mine suggested using QED silver Anniversary XT for my
speaker cables. Having used Chords Chameleons for interconnects I have
some how developed a soft corner for Chord Company cables.

Any suggestions on which of the Chord speaker cables would match the
rave reviews and sound quality of QED Silvers?

There's little doubt that differences between cables do exist.

Yes.

Primarily and obviously the 'DC' resistance. Also inductance and capacitance
although the effect of capacitance tends to be of a slightly lower order.


The issue is whether such differences are audible, and whether perception
changes
the aural experience.

There's little doubt that significant chances in R, L and C are definitely
audible and indeed equally measurable as a non-flat frequency response of
the cable/loudspeaker combination. It's all perfect;ly scientific.

What's NOT sceintific are the claims made for 'magic cables' other than
those that are readily explained by science. In that respect gold or silver
plating is entirely pointless since it has no real effect other than to look
pretty.

Graham

Jim Lesurf wrote:

Rob wrote:

Personally, I doubt much if any difference in sound exists. I have
thought I've been able to detect something (with biwiring, silver
cables), but I've never been able to reliably pin it down to the speaker
cable. Interconnects *may* be a different matter, particularly with low
level phono signals.

When the signal source is something like a moving magnet cartridge then it
is quite plausible that the connecting cables can make a difference. Such
cartridges are very sensitive to load capacitance, and the frequency
response can easily be changed by changing this capacitance.

I have seen co-ax cables with capacitances from 300 pF/m to 100 pF/m.
So with such a source, changing one cable for another could easily make a
difference that would be audible. Easy enough to measure the changes
produced.

And the key word here is 'measure'. Something the audiophools like to avoid
mentioning.

Graham

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Rob wrote:

max graff wrote:

A friend of mine suggested using QED silver Anniversary XT for my
speaker cables. Having used Chords Chameleons for interconnects I have
some how developed a soft corner for Chord Company cables.

Any suggestions on which of the Chord speaker cables would match the
rave reviews and sound quality of QED Silvers?

There's little doubt that differences between cables do exist.

Yes.

Primarily and obviously the 'DC' resistance. Also inductance and
capacitance
although the effect of capacitance tends to be of a slightly lower order.


The issue is whether such differences are audible, and whether perception
changes
the aural experience.

There's little doubt that significant chances in R, L and C are definitely
audible and indeed equally measurable as a non-flat frequency response of
the cable/loudspeaker combination. It's all perfect;ly scientific.

What's NOT sceintific are the claims made for 'magic cables' other than
those that are readily explained by science. In that respect gold or
silver
plating is entirely pointless since it has no real effect other than to
look
pretty.

Graham

Agreed! I was trying to tell the unscientifically-minded earlier that posey
cables beween power amps and cabinets are such a waste of money.
A few monitor systems incorporate the amp fitted inside the console, with
stranded or solid copper links to x-over ntwk and to speakers.
Jim

"max graff" wrote in message
...
Dear all,

A friend of mine suggested using QED silver Anniversary XT for my
speaker cables. Having used Chords Chameleons for interconnects I have
some how developed a soft corner for Chord Company cables.

Any suggestions on which of the Chord speaker cables would match the
rave reviews and sound quality of QED Silvers?

Regards Max

Too many people believe all the total rubbish they read in "hi-fi"
magazines.
"Hi-fi" magazines are intended to generate revenue for people who try to
sell amplifers costing thousands of pounds and say that they sound better
than a 200 pound Jap or Korean amp.

On 10 Apr, 23:42, "AW Barton" wrote:
"max graff" wrote in message

...

Dear all,

A friend of mine suggested using QED silver Anniversary XT for my
speaker cables. Having used Chords Chameleons for interconnects I have
some how developed a soft corner for Chord Company cables.

Any suggestions on which of the Chord speaker cables would match the
rave reviews and sound quality of QED Silvers?

Regards Max

Too many people believe all the total rubbish they read in "hi-fi"
magazines.
"Hi-fi" magazines are intended to generate revenue for people who try to
sell amplifers costing thousands of pounds and say that they sound better
than a 200 pound Jap or Korean amp.

That's cost generally they do!! Come on, are you suggesting that a
£200 jap amp compares in any way sonically to say a Krell or Mark
Levinson or even an Arcam A90?