Jim Lesurf wrote:

It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large
your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc.


Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral
climaxes can be loud.
Digital sources - not vinyl.
Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal
JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB)

... or just to
start an argument. :-)

I've been thinking I'd like to "upgrade" my 20yr old Audiolab 8000A
(50W) in the near future.
I was thinking of spending up to £1000 but if I don't need to spend
that much I won't.

Phileas

On Oct 13, 9:10*am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
As you will have discovered, some people are convinced that
amps can be 'wine tasted' and generally produce audibly different sounds.
However the experimental evidence - when gathered in ways designed to make
people judge by sound, not name-label - tends show this belief to be
unfounded in general, albeit with exceptions.

And even if they do, the trouble with listening in shops is
that the listening room is very different from where I will be using the
amplifier.

Indeed. However that is a vastly harder problem when choosing speakers than
amplifiers. And you seem to have chosen your speakers, so this can't be
impossibly difficult. *:-)

Well, the room in which I compared the speakers was quite a bit bigger
than my actual listening room (11'x13'x8') so I'm not sure really
whether I chose the best of the three I compared. They are probably
too big for my room but then I don't need to have them very loud to
"fill" it.

This is the difficulty with comparing in shops.

Phileas

wrote:

I've been thinking I'd like to "upgrade" my 20yr old Audiolab 8000A
(50W) in the near future.

Bung an 8000P on it? Or two 8000Ms? If you like the Audiolab sound (I
do) then it's the logical upgrade path.

In article
s.com, scribeth thus

Jim Lesurf wrote:

It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large
your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc.


Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral
climaxes can be loud.
Digital sources - not vinyl.
Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal
JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB)

... or just to
start an argument. :-)

I've been thinking I'd like to "upgrade" my 20yr old Audiolab 8000A
(50W) in the near future.
I was thinking of spending up to £1000 but if I don't need to spend
that much I won't.

Phileas

I reckon you'd be well pushed to improve of the Audiolab excellent
amplifier even at 20 years old)..
--
Tony Sayer

On Oct 13, 6:14*pm, wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large
your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc.

Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral
climaxes can be loud.
Digital sources - not vinyl.
Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal
JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB)

... or just to
start an argument. *:-)

I've been thinking I'd like to "upgrade" my 20yr old Audiolab 8000A
(50W) in the near future.
I was thinking of spending up to £1000 but if I don't need to spend
that much I won't.

Phileas

I should also mention that I was thinking of using a Benchmark DAC1 as
a pre-amp (hence my post elsewhere on this group). So I'm thinking
about a power amp. Is the Quad 909 needlessly powerful for example?
I want a well built amp of sufficient power for my modestly sized room
and quite sensitive speakers.

Phileas

Eeyore wrote:

Once only wrote:

wrote in message

If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how
do I determine this?

No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain.
Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different
sonic characters and abilities.
Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes
when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc.
If I were you the first thing is to not pay too much attention
to the big girls blouses of this group.
Do yourself a favour, don't heed mag reviewers advice either.
Try the pre-owned market, plenty of stereo bargains to be had.
This is just one example, the Pioneer A400 was a huge success
because of it ultra wide stable bandwidth (5 - 100) and it's
impressive ability to drive any loudspeaker and remain stable -
thats the ability to churn out amperes!
It sold by the truck load and often crops up in the for sale ads,
and it is proven to be a rugged longstander, can be picked up
for less than £100. But then there are others, Nad, and even Sony
from the late 80's and early 90's.
First port of call believe it or not would be Cash Converters,
then the specialist pre-owned dealers, then the small ads.
Once you've found a model, look it up!
Don't bother with Naim or Arcam, over-priced and nothing
special.

But don't buy antiques. No matter how well they were supposed to sound. All
the electrolytic caps will need replacing and standards weren't as high then.
Modern amplifiers are much better on the whole.

cross-posted intentionally to rec.audio tech

Graham


I have a 20 year old (at least) NAD 3020 - works perfectly but sounds
distinctly soft/mellow compared to a newish SS amp, and indeed an even
older Pioneer receiver. Is this a symptom of old caps, and/or poor design?
Rob

wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:
It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large
your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc.


Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral
climaxes can be loud.
Digital sources - not vinyl.
Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal
JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB)


I had some larger JMLab speakers a while ago - sounded rather bland to
my mind, despite the glowing reviews. Certainly easy to drive, in the
sense they went loud. But of course it's all a matter of taste.

I'd have thought they were rather large for your room? In my 16' x 11'
room I've found all floorstanders to be overblown - very difficult to
get an even bass. Probably not what you want to hear, but I'd suggest
trying some 'bookshelf' speakers and see how you get on. A decent hifi
shop will let you borrow some and it'll work out cheaper in the long run

I bought some little (1.1 I think) Dynaudio Contour speakers about 5
years ago and have never (well, rarely) felt the need to change, used
with a REL subwoofer on occasion.

Rob

Rob wrote:

Eeyore wrote:
Once only wrote:
wrote in message

If all (properly designed) amps sound the same, how do I decide which
amp to buy?

Is it just a case of choosing one with sufficient power output and how
do I determine this?

No, thats not true - the myth of long wire with gain.
Amplifiers can have very similar specs but have different
sonic characters and abilities.
Bandwidth and an amps ability to pump out the amperes
when fronted with an awkward load etc etc etc.
If I were you the first thing is to not pay too much attention
to the big girls blouses of this group.
Do yourself a favour, don't heed mag reviewers advice either.
Try the pre-owned market, plenty of stereo bargains to be had.
This is just one example, the Pioneer A400 was a huge success
because of it ultra wide stable bandwidth (5 - 100) and it's
impressive ability to drive any loudspeaker and remain stable -
thats the ability to churn out amperes!
It sold by the truck load and often crops up in the for sale ads,
and it is proven to be a rugged longstander, can be picked up
for less than £100. But then there are others, Nad, and even Sony
from the late 80's and early 90's.
First port of call believe it or not would be Cash Converters,
then the specialist pre-owned dealers, then the small ads.
Once you've found a model, look it up!
Don't bother with Naim or Arcam, over-priced and nothing
special.

But don't buy antiques. No matter how well they were supposed to sound. All
the electrolytic caps will need replacing and standards weren't as high then.
Modern amplifiers are much better on the whole.

cross-posted intentionally to rec.audio tech

I have a 20 year old (at least) NAD 3020 - works perfectly but sounds
distinctly soft/mellow compared to a newish SS amp, and indeed an even
older Pioneer receiver. Is this a symptom of old caps, and/or poor design?

I know the 3020 moderately well. It was very well regarded (and designed - I fact I
met the designer) and should still sound at least decent today. At that age,
recapping the electrolytic caps specifically is likely to be a good move.
Especially if you're competent with a soldering iron yourself or have a friend who
is. The parts won't cost much.

You don't have the 'soft clip' engaged do you ? That would make it mellower. Also
clean ALL the input and output sockets. Damn RCA / phono / Cinch crap !

Funnily enough, around the time of the 3020 I nearly worked as a designer for NAD.
The deal breaker was that I wanted to do it on contract and they wanted me full
time. I can still remember the excellent lunch they took me out for btw ! Super
Italian.

Graham

wrote:

Jim Lesurf wrote:

It would depend on various factors: What kind of music you like. How large
your listening room is. What speakers you will be using. etc.

Classical music - not excessively loudly but of course orchestral
climaxes can be loud.
Digital sources - not vinyl.
Room 11' x 13' x 8' high (rather small probably for the speakers Focal
JMLab Chorus 714V Power handling 130W max (90W nom) Sensitivity 91dB)

An orchestra even in the auditorium can peak at over 120dB.

To recreate that with 90 odd dB sensitivity speakers requires a 1kW / ch amp.
That's why decent studios have such things. Probably about 6 of them for 5.1
sound.

Graham

tony sayer wrote:

I reckon you'd be well pushed to improve of the Audiolab excellent
amplifier even at 20 years old)..

You must be living in a very weird world then. Its design is utterly
'agricultural' by today's standards. It's barely any better than a decent
semiconductor manufacturer's application note of that era. Frankly it's a joke.
Plus any one you can find will need total re-capping of the electrolytics.

Graham (pro-audio designer with 37 yrs experience)