DTS AV-receiver
 

I have 2 x B&W DM620i loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 25-100 Watt continu), which I
paln to use as frontspeakers. Also I have 2 x Magnat project 4.1
loudspeakers type 2 (4-8 Ohm, 140-250 Watt), which I intend to use as
rearspeakers.

also I have 2 x Sony S-SE 455 V loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 200
W) with centerspeaker Sony SSC-CN55 (8 Ohm, 200 Watt).

I am considering to nuy one of the following 3 DTS audio-video receivers:

Harman Kardon AVR155 now 358 euro, AVR347 now 329 euro en de AVR355
now 530 euro.

I am going to use this receiver in combination with the WD TV HD Media
Player, see http://www.wdc.com/en/library/wdtv/NLD/UserManual.pdf.

I use it for bluray movies.
I also will use it as an audioreciever foor playing CD's, etc.

Which AV receiver sholud I choose and why?
Should I also consider to look at Denon, because I now have all HIFI
stuff from Denon, being 15 years old but still good.

Best regard,

Eric

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article ,
Blacknikon wrote:
I have 2 x B&W DM620i loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 25-100 Watt continu), which I
paln to use as frontspeakers. Also I have 2 x Magnat project 4.1
loudspeakers type 2 (4-8 Ohm, 140-250 Watt), which I intend to use as
rearspeakers.

also I have 2 x Sony S-SE 455 V loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 200
W) with centerspeaker Sony SSC-CN55 (8 Ohm, 200 Watt).

I am considering to nuy one of the following 3 DTS audio-video receivers:

Harman Kardon AVR155 now 358 euro, AVR347 now 329 euro en de AVR355
now 530 euro.

I am going to use this receiver in combination with the WD TV HD Media
Player, see http://www.wdc.com/en/library/wdtv/NLD/UserManual.pdf.

I use it for bluray movies.
I also will use it as an audioreciever foor playing CD's, etc.

Which AV receiver sholud I choose and why?
Should I also consider to look at Denon, because I now have all HIFI
stuff from Denon, being 15 years old but still good.

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Eric

--
*There's two theories to arguing with a woman. Neither one works *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:32:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.

d

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a1c7f39.957665296@localhost...
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:32:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.


Why does it have to be "so small"?

David.

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:04:48 +0100, "David Looser"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
news:4a1c7f39.957665296@localhost...
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:32:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.


Why does it have to be "so small"?


Something to do with acceptability to wives.

d

DTS AV-receiver
 

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:32:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.

My cheap Yamaha receiver has a graphic equalizer menu for the centre speaker,
and of course it can route bass to the sub channel or the main front speakers,
so no honking here, except when using the 6-channel-direct inputs.

Of course there's no honking anyway as I have 5 dual-concentric Tannoys for my TV.

--
Eiron.

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:16:21 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:32:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.

My cheap Yamaha receiver has a graphic equalizer menu for the centre speaker,
and of course it can route bass to the sub channel or the main front speakers,
so no honking here, except when using the 6-channel-direct inputs.

Of course there's no honking anyway as I have 5 dual-concentric Tannoys for my TV.

Where do you put the centre front? Or are you not too fussed about
actually watching the picture?

d

DTS AV-receiver
 

Dave Plowman (News) schreef:
In article ,
Blacknikon wrote:
I have 2 x B&W DM620i loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 25-100 Watt continu), which I
paln to use as frontspeakers. Also I have 2 x Magnat project 4.1
loudspeakers type 2 (4-8 Ohm, 140-250 Watt), which I intend to use as
rearspeakers.

also I have 2 x Sony S-SE 455 V loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 200
W) with centerspeaker Sony SSC-CN55 (8 Ohm, 200 Watt).

I am considering to nuy one of the following 3 DTS audio-video receivers:

Harman Kardon AVR155 now 358 euro, AVR347 now 329 euro en de AVR355
now 530 euro.

I am going to use this receiver in combination with the WD TV HD Media
Player, see http://www.wdc.com/en/library/wdtv/NLD/UserManual.pdf.

I use it for bluray movies.
I also will use it as an audioreciever foor playing CD's, etc.

Which AV receiver sholud I choose and why?
Should I also consider to look at Denon, because I now have all HIFI
stuff from Denon, being 15 years old but still good.

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Eric

Okay! But what about my question?

Thanks, Eric

DTS AV-receiver
 

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 10:16:21 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:32:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.
Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.
My cheap Yamaha receiver has a graphic equalizer menu for the centre speaker,
and of course it can route bass to the sub channel or the main front speakers,
so no honking here, except when using the 6-channel-direct inputs.

Of course there's no honking anyway as I have 5 dual-concentric Tannoys for my TV.

Where do you put the centre front? Or are you not too fussed about
actually watching the picture?

It's what the wife calls a compromise.
The centre speaker is to the left of the fireplace, the screen is to the right.
In an ideal world I would be investigating the acoustic properties of a projector screen
and putting the centre speaker behind it.

--
Eiron.

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Don Pearce wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:32:00 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.

My cheap Yamaha receiver has a graphic equalizer menu for the centre
speaker,
and of course it can route bass to the sub channel or the main front
speakers,
so no honking here, except when using the 6-channel-direct inputs.



Shouldn't get any bass on the centre speaker to speak of, surely? When the
dialogue stops, my centre effectively goes silent.



Of course there's no honking anyway as I have 5 dual-concentric Tannoys
for my TV.


Ruark fronts; Tannoy rears and centre here - plus a Yamaha sub for the
'sonic gravy', but not too loud!

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Eiron" wrote


It's what the wife calls a compromise.
The centre speaker is to the left of the fireplace, the screen is to the
right.
In an ideal world I would be investigating the acoustic properties of a
projector screen
and putting the centre speaker behind it.


Makes no odds to me but Swim says she hears a difference if the screen
extends down to cover the centre! (??)

DTS AV-receiver
 

Blacknikon wrote:
I have 2 x B&W DM620i loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 25-100 Watt continu), which I
paln to use as frontspeakers. Also I have 2 x Magnat project 4.1
loudspeakers type 2 (4-8 Ohm, 140-250 Watt), which I intend to use as
rearspeakers.

also I have 2 x Sony S-SE 455 V loudspeakers (8 Ohm, 200
W) with centerspeaker Sony SSC-CN55 (8 Ohm, 200 Watt).

I am considering to nuy one of the following 3 DTS audio-video receivers:

Harman Kardon AVR155 now 358 euro, AVR347 now 329 euro en de AVR355
now 530 euro.

I am going to use this receiver in combination with the WD TV HD Media
Player, see http://www.wdc.com/en/library/wdtv/NLD/UserManual.pdf.

I use it for bluray movies.
I also will use it as an audioreciever foor playing CD's, etc.

Which AV receiver sholud I choose and why?
Should I also consider to look at Denon, because I now have all HIFI
stuff from Denon, being 15 years old but still good.

Best regard,

Eric

Put all your dosh into a good two channel system.

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article 4a1c7f39.957665296@localhost,
Don Pearce wrote:
Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.

Yup. In the end I didn't bother. Even when using one which was a
reasonable match I didn't like the unreal separation it gave. Of course
when watching I always have the sweet spot seat anyway. ;-)

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article ,
Eiron wrote:
Where do you put the centre front? Or are you not too fussed about
actually watching the picture?

It's what the wife calls a compromise. The centre speaker is to the left
of the fireplace, the screen is to the right. In an ideal world I would
be investigating the acoustic properties of a projector screen and
putting the centre speaker behind it.

Surely the main point of a centre speaker is having the dialogue coming
from the screen?

--
*Why do the two "sanction"s (noun and verb) mean opposites?*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
Where do you put the centre front? Or are you not too fussed about
actually watching the picture?

It's what the wife calls a compromise. The centre speaker is to the left
of the fireplace, the screen is to the right. In an ideal world I would
be investigating the acoustic properties of a projector screen and
putting the centre speaker behind it.

Surely the main point of a centre speaker is having the dialogue coming
from the screen?

Yes. I don't know what the main point of a wife is though.

--
Eiron.

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sat, 16 May 2009 11:56:12 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article 4a1c7f39.957665296@localhost,
Don Pearce wrote:
Only comment I'd make is I found the choice of a centre dialogue speaker
very important - it has to match the main pair pretty well if you want a
reasonably integrated sound stage.

Easier said than done. In 90% of systems the centre speaker seems to
honk rather than make a decent sound. Just a result of having to be so
small, I guess.

Yup. In the end I didn't bother. Even when using one which was a
reasonable match I didn't like the unreal separation it gave. Of course
when watching I always have the sweet spot seat anyway. ;-)

Have you noticed that in a great many recent films, dialogue is pretty
much buried in the effects noises anyway? Very hard to understand
sometimes.

d

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Don Pearce" wrote

Have you noticed that in a great many recent films, dialogue is pretty
much buried in the effects noises anyway?


Nope.


Very hard to understand
sometimes.


That's because it's Harrison Ford....

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
Where do you put the centre front? Or are you not too fussed about
actually watching the picture?

It's what the wife calls a compromise. The centre speaker is to the left
of the fireplace, the screen is to the right. In an ideal world I would
be investigating the acoustic properties of a projector screen and
putting the centre speaker behind it.

Surely the main point of a centre speaker is having the dialogue coming
from the screen?


Clueless ****....


Yes. I don't know what the main point of a wife is though.


To give your kids the same surname as your own...?

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Surely the main point of a centre speaker is having the dialogue
coming from the screen?


Clueless ****....

Go on then. Educate us as to the purpose.


Yes. I don't know what the main point of a wife is though.


To give your kids the same surname as your own...?

Ah. Your father was Mr G. Says it all.

--
*When blondes have more fun, do they know it?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Eiron" wrote


It's what the wife calls a compromise.
The centre speaker is to the left of the fireplace, the screen is to the
right.
In an ideal world I would be investigating the acoustic properties of a
projector screen
and putting the centre speaker behind it.


Makes no odds to me but Swim says she hears a difference if the screen
extends down to cover the centre! (??)

It will, even perforated screens attenuate the HF quite a bit. If you have a
3rd octave equaliser you can correct for that (but make sure the speaker is
as close to the screen as possible and that the back wall has good
sound-absorbsobant properties or you get reflections).

For a normal domestic set-up I regard a phantom centre as preferable. The
point of the centre speaker is to lock dialogue to the screen centre even
for members of the audience who are well away from the sweet spot.

David.

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Blacknikon" wrote in message
...

Okay! But what about my question?


I think the answer to that is that none of actually have sufficient
knowledge of those particular models to give a meaningful opinion on their
relative merits.

David.

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sat, 16 May 2009 13:38:39 +0100, "David Looser"
wrote:

"Blacknikon" wrote in message
...

Okay! But what about my question?


I think the answer to that is that none of actually have sufficient
knowledge of those particular models to give a meaningful opinion on their
relative merits.

David.


I think I would add that relative merits these days tend to lie in
aesthetics and features, rather than performance. Those things are
entirely a matter of personal preference, so asking for opinions on
which to buy is kind of a non-starter.

d

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Don Pearce" wrote
Have you noticed that in a great many recent films, dialogue is pretty
much buried in the effects noises anyway?


Nope.


Very hard to understand
sometimes.


That's because it's Harrison Ford....


Or Mark Wahlberg and Danny Glover in 'Shooter'!

Watched it last night and couldn't hear half of what either of them said -
whether there were other sounds at the same time or not.

OK, don't want/need them projecting their voices like Panto Queens, but
Wahlberg was confusing incoherent mumbling with 'serious acting' and Danny
Glover was quite obviously breaking in a set of false teeth for a friend....

(Unless my recent amp upgrade is a *backwards* step and the s/h Tannoy
centre is no good....??

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:55:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

(Unless my recent amp upgrade is a *backwards* step and the s/h Tannoy
centre is no good....??

Intelligibility issues are rarely due to specific equipment (unless it
is truly dreadful) but to problems in room acoustics, speaker
placement and general levels/setup.

Kal

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article ,
Kalman Rubinson wrote:
(Unless my recent amp upgrade is a *backwards* step and the s/h Tannoy
centre is no good....??

Intelligibility issues are rarely due to specific equipment (unless it
is truly dreadful) but to problems in room acoustics, speaker
placement and general levels/setup.

Most 'home cinema' setups I've heard have had the FX channels too loud.
Given Kitty's hate of anything vaguely to do with measuring things I'd
guess that's the case there too. Easier to just blame the film.

--
*I yell because I care

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:55:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

(Unless my recent amp upgrade is a *backwards* step and the s/h Tannoy
centre is no good....??

Intelligibility issues are rarely due to specific equipment (unless it
is truly dreadful) but to problems in room acoustics, speaker
placement and general levels/setup.

Kal


The movie/HT setup has been in use for a number of years and I'd say it's
probably *unexceptional*, but it's always been plenty good enough for movies
and are we are quite used to it. (It never gets used for music.)

As regards 'Shooter' - I'd immediately blame the recording if it weren't for
the fact that I have just now made a comparison and it is appreciably
clearer on my 'Plex 2' which is two channel audio only using a (brand new)
Denon hifi amp into a pair of very modest B&W standmounters.

I have checked the new Sony AV amp and the whole HT setup is perfectly fine
with audio CDs with no trace of anything untoward; I have also checked the
new (s/h) centre speaker and it's fine also. Actually, better than 'fine' -
I'd happily use two of them for a 2 channel system!

(In both cases the disk player is the same model/identical Samsung BDP.)

Stumped. All the kit appears to work perfectly fine!

Confused. The movie dialogue sounds better/clearer on the lesser (2 channel)
audio system!

??

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Keith G" wrote

Stumped. All the kit appears to work perfectly fine!

Confused. The movie dialogue sounds better/clearer on the lesser (2
channel) audio system!


Add:

Bewildered. The sound is not *perceptably* affected by whether the screen is
up or down (ie in front of the main speakers).

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The movie/HT setup has been in use for a number of years and I'd say
it's probably *unexceptional*, but it's always been plenty good enough
for movies and are we are quite used to it. (It never gets used for
music.)

You must search hard to find a film without music.

Typical comment from one who think sound systems have to be chosen for
specific purposes.

--
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

Keith G wrote:

"Keith G" wrote

Stumped. All the kit appears to work perfectly fine!

Confused. The movie dialogue sounds better/clearer on the lesser (2
channel) audio system!


Add:

Bewildered. The sound is not *perceptably* affected by whether the
screen is up or down (ie in front of the main speakers).

FWIW I find stereo speakers just fine. And it gets worse - the TV is to
one side of the speakers. Once I've got over the notion that this
shouldn't work (2, maybe 3 seconds) never fails to impress.

I did try a cheapish (£400-odd) Pioneer 5.1 system but couldn't believe
how bad it was. And I've messed about with rear speakers - while I
couldn't be bothered in the end, Das Boot, with various submerged type
noises, sounded good :-)

Rob

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Rob" wrote in message
om...
Keith G wrote:

"Keith G" wrote

Stumped. All the kit appears to work perfectly fine!

Confused. The movie dialogue sounds better/clearer on the lesser (2
channel) audio system!


Add:

Bewildered. The sound is not *perceptably* affected by whether the screen
is up or down (ie in front of the main speakers).

FWIW I find stereo speakers just fine. And it gets worse - the TV is to
one side of the speakers. Once I've got over the notion that this
shouldn't work (2, maybe 3 seconds) never fails to impress.


:-)

I'm with you - a good stereo pair and no wires/speakers all over the place
would do me just fine, but this 1080p Bluray palaver has caused me to try an
*push it* a bit!



I did try a cheapish (£400-odd) Pioneer 5.1 system but couldn't believe
how bad it was.


If you are talking a Cinema or 'HT' speaker kit, then I can believe how bad
they probably were - no matter what the sound source, there's no substitute
for decent speakers and HT is no exception!


And I've messed about with rear speakers - while I
couldn't be bothered in the end, Das Boot, with various submerged type
noises, sounded good :-)


Well, in my wisdom I concluded that the new AV amp was a retrograde move and
said as much - until I was reminded how often we had had to run movies back
to re-watch bits with the subbies on and how that had been getting more
frequent, lately!

It is only dialogue that's playing me up - the crash, bang, wallop is fine
on all the various kit. (How could it not be?)

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Keith G" wrote


I'm with you - a good stereo pair and no wires/speakers all over the place
would do me just fine,



What am I saying? It *does* do me fine - it's all I got in my room! ('Plex 2
:-)

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sun, 17 May 2009 16:33:01 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 17 May 2009 12:55:16 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

(Unless my recent amp upgrade is a *backwards* step and the s/h Tannoy
centre is no good....??

Intelligibility issues are rarely due to specific equipment (unless it
is truly dreadful) but to problems in room acoustics, speaker
placement and general levels/setup.

Kal


The movie/HT setup has been in use for a number of years and I'd say it's
probably *unexceptional*, but it's always been plenty good enough for movies
and are we are quite used to it. (It never gets used for music.)

As regards 'Shooter' - I'd immediately blame the recording if it weren't for
the fact that I have just now made a comparison and it is appreciably
clearer on my 'Plex 2' which is two channel audio only using a (brand new)
Denon hifi amp into a pair of very modest B&W standmounters.

That certainly suggests it is the setup of the 'other' system. (I do
not know what a 'Plex 2' is.)

I have checked the new Sony AV amp and the whole HT setup is perfectly fine
with audio CDs with no trace of anything untoward; I have also checked the
new (s/h) centre speaker and it's fine also. Actually, better than 'fine' -
I'd happily use two of them for a 2 channel system!

How have you 'checked' the setup? Have you balanced the speaker
levels with a SLM or other device? Have you adjusted the delays for
each speaker? Is the center free-standing, off the floor and aimed at
the listener?

Stumped. All the kit appears to work perfectly fine!

Confused. The movie dialogue sounds better/clearer on the lesser (2 channel)
audio system!

Again, that suggests a setup/acoustics issue.

Kal

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article ,
Rob wrote:
I did try a cheapish (£400-odd) Pioneer 5.1 system but couldn't believe
how bad it was. And I've messed about with rear speakers - while I
couldn't be bothered in the end, Das Boot, with various submerged type
noises, sounded good :-)

Indeed. Most 5.1 systems are of incredibly poor quality. But suit those
who wish such things. Ie more being better.

--
*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote


That certainly suggests it is the setup of the 'other' system. (I do
not know what a 'Plex 2' is.)


Just my silly name for the cinema setup in my room which I call 'Multiplex
Screen 2' - the main system in the living room (sorry, no dedicated HT rooms
here in the UK) being '(Multi)Plex 1'!


How have you 'checked' the setup?


OK, I haven't checked the 'setup' as such - only made some direct
comparisons for elimination purposes, as follows:

I played a couple of audio CDs on the main (troubled) setup to check that
the basic sound quality of the new amp was OK on the speakers I'm using and
that the speakers hadn't been damaged by the *frisky behaviour* of a few
days ago! All was well.

Played the same BD ('Shooter') on my secondary (2 channel stereo only) setup
and confirmed fairly quickly that the dialogue was appreciably clearer on a
section that was 'needing the subbies' on the main setup - note that this
was a 'dialogue only' section with no other sounds at that time.

Took the new (eBay) Tannoy centre and put it on the left channel of my
secondary setup in place of one of the B&W standmounters. It was excellent -
no nasties of any description! Like I said - I'd get a pair of them for use
as 'normal' speakers!



Have you balanced the speaker
levels with a SLM or other device?


No, see below....


Have you adjusted the delays for
each speaker?


No, see below....


Is the center free-standing, off the floor and aimed at
the listener?


The centre is on the top shelf under the telly (spacings have been adjusted
to better centralise things):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/Screensize.jpg


It works fine there - the words still come stright from the actor's mouths!
(Ask Rob! :-)


Again, that suggests a setup/acoustics issue.


Right. Now the trouble begins! 'Wilful ignorance' is my middle name (s) -
ask anybody! 'Til now, I have studiously avoided getting involved with the
AV setup until and have no clue (yet) how to navigate and operate the
seemingly tricky menus on the Sony and am reluctant to start 'buggering
about' with it!

I know it shouldn't be too hard and the amp even comes with its own mic to
set it all up'automatically'! But, before I start, I don't see how the all
the amplifier settings (whatever they might be) can affect a 'standalone'
bit of dialogue - ie when the dialogue needs to relate to nothing else at
that moment...??!

IOW, it appears I have a *paradox* on my hands!

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Sun, 17 May 2009 23:38:14 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Kalman Rubinson" wrote

Have you balanced the speaker
levels with a SLM or other device?


No, see below....

Too bad. Necessary.


Have you adjusted the delays for
each speaker?


No, see below....

Too bad. Necessary.


Is the center free-standing, off the floor and aimed at
the listener?


The centre is on the top shelf under the telly (spacings have been adjusted
to better centralise things):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/Screensize.jpg


It works fine there - the words still come stright from the actor's mouths!
(Ask Rob! :-)

Apparently not since you have your complaint. Looking at your setup,
I wonder why you got a center channel. You main L/R speakers are not
very far apart.


Again, that suggests a setup/acoustics issue.


Right. Now the trouble begins! 'Wilful ignorance' is my middle name (s) -
ask anybody! 'Til now, I have studiously avoided getting involved with the
AV setup until and have no clue (yet) how to navigate and operate the
seemingly tricky menus on the Sony and am reluctant to start 'buggering
about' with it!

??? 'Buggering about?" What we are talking about is proper and
necessary setup procdures.

I know it shouldn't be too hard and the amp even comes with its own mic to
set it all up'automatically'! But, before I start, I don't see how the all
the amplifier settings (whatever they might be) can affect a 'standalone'
bit of dialogue - ie when the dialogue needs to relate to nothing else at
that moment...??!

The inclusion of the mic should be taken as an indication of the
importance of doing this right if you hope to achieve good
performance. First, the dialog is not 'standalone' and the fact that
it sounds OK when the speaker is used independently tells you that it
is the interaction of the elements that is at issue. Second, I see
lots of hard bare surfaces in your room. These are bad for acoustics,
thereby increasing the need for the electronics, at the very least, to
work correctly.

IOW, it appears I have a *paradox* on my hands!

Not a paradox, an opportunity.

Kal

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 May 2009 23:38:14 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Kalman Rubinson" wrote

Have you balanced the speaker
levels with a SLM or other device?


No, see below....

Too bad. Necessary.


Have you adjusted the delays for
each speaker?


No, see below....

Too bad. Necessary.


Is the center free-standing, off the floor and aimed at
the listener?


The centre is on the top shelf under the telly (spacings have been
adjusted
to better centralise things):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/Screensize.jpg


It works fine there - the words still come stright from the actor's
mouths!
(Ask Rob! :-)

Apparently not since you have your complaint. Looking at your setup,
I wonder why you got a center channel. You main L/R speakers are not
very far apart.


Again, that suggests a setup/acoustics issue.


Right. Now the trouble begins! 'Wilful ignorance' is my middle name (s) -
ask anybody! 'Til now, I have studiously avoided getting involved with the
AV setup until and have no clue (yet) how to navigate and operate the
seemingly tricky menus on the Sony and am reluctant to start 'buggering
about' with it!

??? 'Buggering about?" What we are talking about is proper and
necessary setup procdures.

I know it shouldn't be too hard and the amp even comes with its own mic to
set it all up'automatically'! But, before I start, I don't see how the all
the amplifier settings (whatever they might be) can affect a 'standalone'
bit of dialogue - ie when the dialogue needs to relate to nothing else at
that moment...??!

The inclusion of the mic should be taken as an indication of the
importance of doing this right if you hope to achieve good
performance. First, the dialog is not 'standalone' and the fact that
it sounds OK when the speaker is used independently tells you that it
is the interaction of the elements that is at issue. Second, I see
lots of hard bare surfaces in your room. These are bad for acoustics,
thereby increasing the need for the electronics, at the very least, to
work correctly.

IOW, it appears I have a *paradox* on my hands!

Not a paradox, an opportunity.

Kal



Thanks for your input, Kal - I appreciate you taking the trouble!

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...

??? 'Buggering about?" What we are talking about is proper and
necessary setup procdures.


Indeed, and the difference that getting the correct adjustments absolutely
correct is significant. Cinema 5.1 systems are set up by a trained installer
and the set-up menus are password protected to stop the cinema staff from
"buggering about" with them afterwards.

David.

DTS AV-receiver
 

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...

??? 'Buggering about?" What we are talking about is proper and
necessary setup procdures.


Indeed, and the difference that getting the correct adjustments
absolutely correct is significant. Cinema 5.1 systems are set up by a
trained installer and the set-up menus are password protected to stop
the cinema staff from "buggering about" with them afterwards.

And the cinema will have reasonable acoustic treatment - essential for
anything like this to work as intended.

--
*I wonder how much deeper the ocean would be without sponges*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

DTS AV-receiver
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
David Looser wrote:
"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...

??? 'Buggering about?" What we are talking about is proper and
necessary setup procdures.


Indeed, and the difference that getting the correct adjustments
absolutely correct is significant. Cinema 5.1 systems are set up by a
trained installer and the set-up menus are password protected to stop
the cinema staff from "buggering about" with them afterwards.

And the cinema will have reasonable acoustic treatment - essential for
anything like this to work as intended.


Oh indeed. The cinema I help run was built in 1911, well before the start of
the "talkies", nevertheless it (fortuitously?) has excellent acoustics. It's
now a Grade 2* listed building, so any alterations, such as additional
acoustic treatment, would need listed building consent. Fortunately this has
not proved necessary.

David.

DTS AV-receiver
 

On Mon, 18 May 2009 09:16:08 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
...

??? 'Buggering about?" What we are talking about is proper and
necessary setup procdures.


Indeed, and the difference that getting the correct adjustments
absolutely correct is significant. Cinema 5.1 systems are set up by a
trained installer and the set-up menus are password protected to stop
the cinema staff from "buggering about" with them afterwards.

And the cinema will have reasonable acoustic treatment - essential for
anything like this to work as intended.

That, too, was noted in my message. Unfortunately, too few home
theaters are so treated.

Kal