In article , Eeyore rabbitsfriendsan
scribeth thus


Arny Krueger wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
Eeyore wrote:

Mere pence when you include decent XLRs? Love to know where you buy
them for that...

Do you know how cheap the Chinese copy XLRs are now ? They're perfectly
decent for the job.

My experiences of cheap XLRs isn't positive - I tend to stick to Neutric.
But then they're used for the purpose intended.

The Neutrik clone XLRs are IME pretty good. Never saw one fail, although
I've seen the cables they are attached to fail many times.

I've actually NEVER seen a bad 'copy' XLR, certainly compared to certain other
styles of connector around.

Give us an address and you can have one I came across the other week
made on monkey metal it was!..poxy piece of junk from China..

Plugging them in and out HUNDREDS of times might wear the contacts but just try
that with an RCA ! I have some XLR leads here that are nearly 40 years old and
still in perfect working order, despite HUNDREDS of times being used.

No doubt .. decent ones will be like that
--
Tony Sayer

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Serge Auckland wrote:

The only part of domestic equipment that would benefit from balanced
connection IS the phono cartridge, so that at least should be connected
with
XLRs. For everything else, crappy phonos is OK, if you don't have to
change
connections frequently.

That shows a STAGGERING lack of knowledge of the realities of audio and
the
environment in which it operates.

Notably with modern equipment it is totally untrue of those using
switch-mode
PSUs which invariably inject leakage currents at mains frequencies and
harmonics
into audio connections ( regardless of whether the unit is Class I -
earthed )
or Class II - double insulated ). i.e. 2 or 3 pole mains connector.

Even an unbalanced wire badly routed WILL pick up hum where the balanced
one
won't ( to the linit of the common-mode rejection ration of the
equipment ). I
came across an extraordinary example of this last year where a system
upgrade
had been installed by an idiot.

I would elaborate now but you could do worse than go to Jensen
Transformer's
site and download Bill Whitlock's paper on the use of balanced
connections.

Graham


--
due to the hugely increased level of spam please make the obvious
adjustment to
my email address



Maybe I have lead a sheltered life since I moved to the country.... :-) My
experience is otherwise, that decent equipment doesn't hum or pick up RF if
half-decent screened cable is used. I do accept that I've had some trouble
with SOME switched-mode powered equipment which was cured by the use of an
isolating transformer. I assumed that was an isolated example.

S.



--
http://audiopages.googlepages.com

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Why do you think broadcast kit is all
BNC for video ?


Well it isn't of course. MUSAs are still used for video jackfields (and it
was the standard video connector for many years in this country at least).
And the PL259 design has also been widely used as a video connector in
broadcast kit. Neither of these are any better than phono in terms of
return-loss. What all three do have is robustness and, in the case of BNCs
and PL259s, a locking mechanism.

David.

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote



Well, the video could be on BNCs which needn't be that expensive either
( think
of how many used to be used in networking ) so you'd only need a few
XLRs.


The trouble with those connectors and co-ax/optical digital connections (I
gather) is they can't deal with the bandwidth required for 7.1 channels of
'HD' sound or digital video.

D-Cinema servers use BNC connectors to carry the digital video to the
projector, and 25-pin D connectors to carry the 8 channel LPCM digital audio
(as 4 x 2-channel AES/EBU streams) to the audio processor.


David.

In article ,
Eeyore wrote:
Furthermore the BNC was designed from the outset as an wide bandwidth,
low reflection RF connector, the RCA was most certainly not. It's one of
those "you can get away with it - just" situations. Why do you think
broadcast kit is all BNC for video ?

Generally connectors in broadcasting *have* to be more robust - as they
have to survive being plugged and unplugged many times. In other words the
same monitor or whatever might be semi permanently installed - or used in
a different place each day. And you need to keep the varieties in use to a
minimum. This simply doesn't - usually - apply to domestic gear.
I'm not much of a lover of BNCs. Having two types - 50 and 75 ohm - which
aren't immediately distinguishable isn't ideal. Nor are they a
particularly easy one to plug and unplug under arduous conditions. Not
that I can suggest a better one. ;-)

--
*Don't worry; it only seems kinky the first time.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
Serge Auckland wrote:
Maybe I have lead a sheltered life since I moved to the country.... :-)
My experience is otherwise, that decent equipment doesn't hum or pick
up RF if half-decent screened cable is used. I do accept that I've had
some trouble with SOME switched-mode powered equipment which was cured
by the use of an isolating transformer. I assumed that was an isolated
example.

Indeed. I've got a pretty big installation here with some stuff in one
part of the room - TV, PVR, satellite receiver - and the main audio stuff
at another. All interconnected unbalanced. It's also linked to sound and
vision in the kitchen so I can have the same thing playing etc while
wandering between the two. And no problems whatsoever with hum. It would
be a poor piece of design which has high levels of nasties on an audio
ground.

--
*I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Eeyore" wrote in message
...


Keith G wrote:

"Eeyore" wrote

Well, the video could be on BNCs which needn't be that expensive either
( think of how many used to be used in networking ) so you'd only need
a few
XLRs.

The trouble with those connectors and co-ax/optical digital connections
(I
gather) is they can't deal with the bandwidth required for 7.1 channels
of
'HD' sound or digital video.

Possibly true of low quality 'multi-mode' plastic fibre but real 'graded
index'
glass fibres are good for GHz or whatever. It's what the 'net' runs on.


Asitappens, Number 2 son spends a lot of time in prison these days....

.....wiring up the 'cons' for fibre optic broad band (???!!!) - here's a
couple of 'splicer pix' (I photograph *everything*):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/Splicer-1.jpg

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/Splicer-2.jpg


(My 'technical knowledge' may be crap but my 'Show N Tell' skills are
*second to none* here!! ;-)

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Eeyore" wrote



Well, the video could be on BNCs which needn't be that expensive either
( think
of how many used to be used in networking ) so you'd only need a few
XLRs.


The trouble with those connectors and co-ax/optical digital connections
(I gather) is they can't deal with the bandwidth required for 7.1
channels of 'HD' sound or digital video.

D-Cinema servers use BNC connectors to carry the digital video to the
projector, and 25-pin D connectors to carry the 8 channel LPCM digital
audio (as 4 x 2-channel AES/EBU streams) to the audio processor.


That's very interesting - I learn summat new every day! (Remembering it is
the problem....!! :-)

On my AV setup the audio/video signal is fed from the player to the amp and
from the amp to the projector - curiously HDMI both ways, when the projector
has no sound capabilities!?

In article , Eeyore
wrote:


Laurence Payne wrote:


By design, an XLR beats an RCA jack any day. It is also inherently
designed to carry a balanced signal with all the attendant advantages
that offers.

Only the way a truck beats a bicycle.

Utter nonsence. In today's EMI rich environment, the argument for
balanced operation could never be stronger.

I guess you don't design, maintain and repair studios where even poor
application of balanced circuits can lead to problems with today's high
S/N ratio equipment.

Ignoring my lab experience where audio connectors are irrelevant, I've only
designed / used / modified / tested / etc domestic commercial and amateur
equipment. However over 30+ years I've found that phonos and unbalanced can
be fine for this provided they are used appropriately. Ditto for the DIN
ones - with the exception of the LS plugs.

So I'd agree with Laurence that a Truck isn't a Bicycle. For me, a key
feature of *engineering* is to use methods appropriate for the purpose. So
I'd expect studio or PA methods to differ from those in domestic audio.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Eeyore
wrote:
Furthermore the BNC was designed from the outset as an wide bandwidth,
low reflection RF connector, the RCA was most certainly not. It's one
of those "you can get away with it - just" situations. Why do you
think broadcast kit is all BNC for video ?

Generally connectors in broadcasting *have* to be more robust - as they
have to survive being plugged and unplugged many times. In other words
the same monitor or whatever might be semi permanently installed - or
used in a different place each day. And you need to keep the varieties
in use to a minimum. This simply doesn't - usually - apply to domestic
gear. I'm not much of a lover of BNCs. Having two types - 50 and 75 ohm
- which aren't immediately distinguishable isn't ideal. Nor are they a
particularly easy one to plug and unplug under arduous conditions. Not
that I can suggest a better one. ;-)

I used to use SMA connectors for a lot of lab systems, often having to use
a torque spanner to ensure reliable connections. Maybe we should all be
using SMA and semi-rigid coax for line level connections. 8-]

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html