Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Kitty - go and do some basic reading about protecting wiring - or even
just look at a fuse. Before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.


Can't decide if this clown's deliberately evading the point or it's
flying way over his head, as usual....

Explanation (if anyone cares): I reduce a wire to a single strand to
demonstrate the 'science vs, conventional wisdom' predicament that was
prompted (to me) by the OP and monkeyboi sees it a 'fuse' and hasn't
stopped going on about fuses ever since!

Kitty, you'd certainly have known what a fuse is and how it works if you'd
been using decent speakers and amp at a goodly level...

Desperate to get me to *talk* to him, I suspect! ;-)

Only if I were some kind of machochist.


He says this and yet he can't leave my posts alone!! :-)

Says it all, don't it....??

LOL!



--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

In article 4a3f51c1.796538671@localhost, Don Pearce
wrote:


A) That all the mains cables seem to show a common fall in level with
frequency at a rate of around 3dB per 100Mhz.

B) That all the mains cables show variations with frequency that
indicate the presence in the system of a pair of mismatch connectioned
spaced 1 or 2 metres apart. (Hard to be precise about the distance as
we have no clue as to the propagation velocities.)


The overall slope of the cables (3dB per 100MHz) is about what I would
expect for a cable not designed for the transmission of RF. The
insulation will be pretty lossy, and the unshielded design will allow a
certain amount of radiation,

One of the reasons I doubt the above is the cause of (A) here is (B). If
you look at the graphs in the pdf I initially mentioned you can see that
the peak-minimim difference of the 'PowerKord' examples doesn't vanish at
HF.

Yet if the single pass cable losses were as high as 10dB, I'd expect the
peak-minimum ripples to essentially dissapear. The 'round trip' reflection
return would be be 20dB below the input, so would hardly contribute to
causing frequency variations in the total output level.

So my feeling is that the systematic fall - essentially common to all the
cables - is an instrumental/measurement effect outwith the cables under
test.

I also have the feeling that your explanation would not explain the extent
of the reduction, nor why all the cables seem to show it to much the same
extent. For example, if - as seems likely - the fancy cables have a lower
impedance then the field has a different E/H ratio. The dielectric will
affect the E-field losses, not the H-field. Again it seems a curiously odd
coincidence if that balanced perfectly at all frequencies with, say,
resistive conduction losses. Making all the losses for the peaks against
frequency come out much the same for all frequencies seems an odd
coincidence to me.

However I need to re-read the detailed papers a few times and think about
them. My feeling, though is that all the results in the initial pdf show is
that the cables have different Zc values. The relevant measurements seem to
have been done with no mains supply or loading PSU. Just with what seem to
be claimed to be 50Ohm terminations.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand
2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice
coil would probably blow first.

0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms.


And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any
conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes very
little difference.

David.

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand
2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the
voice coil would probably blow first.

0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms.


And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any
conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes
very little difference.

It really depends on the speakers. amps and level you use. I was merely
trying to explain to Kitty that a short length of single strand wire might
well not make any audible difference under some circumstances. But might
well under others.

If a 5 amp fuse wouldn't ever blow I doubt few decent speakers could be
damaged through overdriving. But they can do and are.

--
*Where do forest rangers go to "get away from it all?"

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:
On 22 Jun, wrote:
In article , Rob

BTW I have just this minute had an email in reply from the contact.
That has supplied some more documentation. Not yet had a chance to
look at it, though.

The contact supplied a document. This doesn't itself answer my questions.
But it did direct me to

http://www.russandrews.com/src/resea...rchpaper09.htm

So I have downloaded the relevant 'papers' from their and will study them.
I'll be interested to see what reactions others may have if they care to do
the same.


That's all very thorough Jim. All I'm saying is that it's a bit like me
poring over David Icke's manifesto in the search for a decent political
or social theory.

Rob

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

David Looser wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand
2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice
coil would probably blow first.
0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms.


And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any
conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes very
little difference.

I beg to differ. Although amps tend to have fuses in the power rails rather than the output,
if you took even a modest power amp with 4 ohm speakers and added a 5amp fuse to the speaker lead,
then asked your teenager not to play his dreadful modern music too loud while you are away....

And if you forget to turn the power off to your power amp while unplugging the input....
Who designed RCA plugs so that the ground disconnects before the signal?

--
Eiron.

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
David Looser wrote:
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Eiron wrote:
The photo looks like an inch of 0.2mm diameter wire from a 79 strand
2.5mm^2 cable. I think it would blow at less than 20 amps but the voice
coil would probably blow first.
0.2mm diameter is rated at 5 amps in open fuse terms.


And the chance of a 5A fuse in the speaker lead blowing under any
conceivable domestic listening situation is as close to zero as makes
very little difference.

I beg to differ. Although amps tend to have fuses in the power rails
rather than the output,
if you took even a modest power amp with 4 ohm speakers and added a 5amp
fuse to the speaker lead,
then asked your teenager not to play his dreadful modern music too loud
while you are away....

And if you forget to turn the power off to your power amp while unplugging
the input....
Who designed RCA plugs so that the ground disconnects before the signal?


Fuses take quite a long time to blow, depending on how much the current
exceeds the rating. Music, even "dreadful modern music" has an rms value
well below that of a sinewave, and a 5A sinewave into a 4 ohm load is 100W.
So I go with the earlier comment that the speakers would be wrecked long
before the a 5A fuse got round to protecting them.

David.

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

If a 5 amp fuse wouldn't ever blow I doubt few decent speakers could be
damaged through overdriving. But they can do and are.

--
I didn't say that speakers can't be damaged, they can be and they are. But
fuses?, they are pretty useless except for gross overloads. Short the mains
out and the fuse will blow, put a 50% overload on the ring and they probably
won't, not in any meaningful time scale anyway. That's one of the reasons
for the change to circuit-breakers.

David.

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Fuses take quite a long time to blow, depending on how much the current
exceeds the rating. Music, even "dreadful modern music" has an rms value
well below that of a sinewave, and a 5A sinewave into a 4 ohm load is
100W. So I go with the earlier comment that the speakers would be
wrecked long before the a 5A fuse got round to protecting them.

Fuses aren't a good way of protecting speakers. After all if they are both
copper wire so if the same sort of gauge it will just depend on the
cooling and lengths, basically.

--
*Can vegetarians eat animal crackers?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Russ Andrews and Ben Duncan :-)
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...

If a 5 amp fuse wouldn't ever blow I doubt few decent speakers could be
damaged through overdriving. But they can do and are.

--
I didn't say that speakers can't be damaged, they can be and they are. But
fuses?, they are pretty useless except for gross overloads. Short the
mains out and the fuse will blow, put a 50% overload on the ring and they
probably won't, not in any meaningful time scale anyway. That's one of the
reasons for the change to circuit-breakers.


Ignore Poochie, he's just bull****ting (or trying to) his way out of a hole
he dug for himself when he saw I had reduced a speaker connection down to a
single strand and he went into *fuse spasm*....

The single strand is nothing to do with fuses (what's the whole wire then -
a *higher rated fuse*?) - it was merely to illustrate the point that I
believe 'conventional wisdom' actually promotes and encourages 'snake oil'
(referenced in the OP) by doing something rather unconventional....