Keith G wrote:

You snipped the best bit:

"The usual comment is 'tighten up the bass' (treble not affected) and I
wouldn't argue with it, but I think the speaker's mass has a lot to do with
it irrespective of the floorcovering and is why I posted my comment
about WW
Greener's formula...."

Note the 'I wouldn't argue with it' bit!

Try it yourself is all I can say - and post the results here.

Right. I'll add it to my 'to try' list:

1. Astrology
2. Magic healing crystals
3. Green CD marker
4. Homeopathy
5. Speaker spikes

(It might be a while.)

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Triangular.jpg

Is that grey amp a Gerry Wells special?


--
Richard Lamont http://www.lamont.me.uk/

OpenPGP Key ID: 0xBD89BE41
Fingerprint: CE78 C285 1F97 0BDA 886D BA78 26D8 6C34 BD89 BE41

"Richard Lamont" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

You snipped the best bit:

"The usual comment is 'tighten up the bass' (treble not affected) and I
wouldn't argue with it, but I think the speaker's mass has a lot to do
with
it irrespective of the floorcovering and is why I posted my comment
about WW
Greener's formula...."

Note the 'I wouldn't argue with it' bit!

Try it yourself is all I can say - and post the results here.

Right. I'll add it to my 'to try' list:



Good fellow - too many *theorists* here....



1. Astrology
2. Magic healing crystals
3. Green CD marker
4. Homeopathy
5. Speaker spikes

(It might be a while.)


So move it up the list.....



http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Triangular.jpg

Is that grey amp a Gerry Wells special?


No, it's a 'Keith Garratt probably not too special' - but I like it!!

;-)

Better pic he

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...Fandothers.JPG

(Different pix taken of different kit at different times - when I wuz
*trying stuff out* for myself!! ;-)

"Keith G" wrote


Better pic he

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...Fandothers.JPG

(Different pix taken of different kit at different times - when I wuz
*trying stuff out* for myself!! ;-)


Actually that pic has much to tell:

Note the record deck sits (without suspension) in a massive plinth made from
kitchen worktop offcuts and sits on a two inch thick 'grano' paving slab
(painted black) on firm, rubber 'doorstop' feet. The 'hifi stand' with the
extra weight in it (valve amp and large SS power amp) is pretty firmly stuck
to the ground (concrete floor under weedy/cheapskate bedroom carpet) and I
can quite definitely say the sound from that deck has *by far* the best bass
and pin sharp clarity I have ever heard from any turntable!

(That said, the other tt I use atm is a simple Technics deck with 'squidgy
suspension' built-in and I like that one just as much!)

Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and will
try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere), but whether or not that
really wotks isn't important: my reason for heaping things on top of
speakers is simply lack of space and the speaker tops are* somewhere handy
to put stuff!!


*were - I've thinned down a lot now!

"Keith G" wrote


Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and
will try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere),


OK, that wasn't actually too hard:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/0002.JPG

Incidentally, those speakers are a pair of Cyburg's Needles I built and sent
to him over in Brussels. He loves them, but they ain't ever gonna sound any
good out in the room like in the pic - contrary to what someone said here
recently, they need to be flat back against a wall or other large, flat
surface for bass reinforcement....

.....when they will sound incredibly good with a crystal clear yet rich 'full
sound' which totally belies the little 2 inch, cheapo 'car speaker' Viston
drive units!!

(I got a pair here in constant use on this computer and the radio and they
are superb - people look for the subwoofer!! :-)

But enough of that - that's history now...

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:59:17 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Note the record deck sits (without suspension) in a massive plinth made from
kitchen worktop offcuts and sits on a two inch thick 'grano' paving slab
(painted black) on firm, rubber 'doorstop' feet. The 'hifi stand' with the
extra weight in it (valve amp and large SS power amp) is pretty firmly stuck
to the ground (concrete floor under weedy/cheapskate bedroom carpet) and I
can quite definitely say the sound from that deck has *by far* the best bass
and pin sharp clarity I have ever heard from any turntable!

(That said, the other tt I use atm is a simple Technics deck with 'squidgy
suspension' built-in and I like that one just as much!)

So what characteristics does the Technics have to compensate for its
*by far* inferior bass and clarity?

One deck is close to a speaker, another is actually on top of one! Of
course THOSE decks never feed THAT speaker?

Are the speakers you actually listen to cramped against walls and
other equipment in that way? Do they sound different/better given a
bit more space to work in?

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 15:59:17 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Note the record deck sits (without suspension) in a massive plinth made
from
kitchen worktop offcuts and sits on a two inch thick 'grano' paving slab
(painted black) on firm, rubber 'doorstop' feet. The 'hifi stand' with the
extra weight in it (valve amp and large SS power amp) is pretty firmly
stuck
to the ground (concrete floor under weedy/cheapskate bedroom carpet) and I
can quite definitely say the sound from that deck has *by far* the best
bass
and pin sharp clarity I have ever heard from any turntable!

(That said, the other tt I use atm is a simple Technics deck with 'squidgy
suspension' built-in and I like that one just as much!)

So what characteristics does the Technics have to compensate for its
*by far* inferior bass and clarity?


Here's a little 'furry' pic of it (I'm into handheld/low-light MF atm):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Technics.JPG

Anyway, no idea - the AT moving coil cart probably helps...??



One deck is close to a speaker, another is actually on top of one! Of
course THOSE decks never feed THAT speaker?


Calm down, dear!

I have used decks parked on speakers before now but the deck in that pic was
just parked up. Trust me, I do like (very much) the sound I get from my
kit - or it'd be a damn sight different to wot it is, but I think you need
to free your mind off from a load of 'audiophile/anti-audiophile' prejudice
and misconceptions...



Are the speakers you actually listen to cramped against walls and
other equipment in that way? Do they sound different/better given a
bit more space to work in?


So many questions! I bet you drove your parents mad when you were a kid!

I've lost track, if the speakers you refer to are the ones with the IMF in,
they're history - the speakers I've got and use atm are crammed in but not
against the wall and sound absolutely fine to me; whether you or anyone else
would agree is another thing, but that's not really germane....

Tell me summat, have you ever been in a secondhand record shop and asked the
owner to 'put a record on' to try it? They invariably have utterly mediocre
kit - 'mid-fi' Technics decks and amps; speakers with no name on - and the
sound is usually quite *exquisite*!! Similarly, the more junk and clutter in
my room, the better the sound, I find!!

(I remember once I got someone to listen with his eyes shut while I slowly
rotated one speaker until it was facing the wall - he had no idea what was
going on and said the sound was unaffected throughout!! ;-)

On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:07:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

(I remember once I got someone to listen with his eyes shut while I slowly
rotated one speaker until it was facing the wall - he had no idea what was
going on and said the sound was unaffected throughout!! ;-)

Yes, the Critical Distance for a given room/speaker combination is
often closer than you think! In PA applications sometimes it's
practically impossible to place the audience inside it.

Where's your hi-fi listening "sweet spot" in relation to the CD? In
any given room, the same for all speakers or not? When recording, I'm
used to monitoring well inside, but checking a mix from WAY outside -
like in the next room with the door shut!

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:07:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

(I remember once I got someone to listen with his eyes shut while I slowly
rotated one speaker until it was facing the wall - he had no idea what was
going on and said the sound was unaffected throughout!! ;-)

Yes, the Critical Distance for a given room/speaker combination is
often closer than you think! In PA applications sometimes it's
practically impossible to place the audience inside it.

Where's your hi-fi listening "sweet spot" in relation to the CD? In
any given room, the same for all speakers or not? When recording, I'm
used to monitoring well inside, but checking a mix from WAY outside -
like in the next room with the door shut!


In normal use I don't go for all this 'sweet spot' malarkey - I listen to
most of my music through the doorway from the next room when I'm not
listening to the setup on this computer! Anyway, a little while ago I was
prompted to make a couple of (mono) microphone recordings of the SET/Lothers
with my toyshop ribbon (haven't done it for ages) thus:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ibbonSetup.jpg

(Note the dressing gown hanging behind it to soak up the 'backdraft'...)

Here's a couple of very dirty extracts, complete with hiss, hum, the 'needle
down' bang and even the sound of me closing the door, to give you an
approximate *recorded* idea of what I like soundwise:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...phtExtract.mp3

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...htExtract2.mp3

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and
will try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere), but whether or
not that really wotks isn't important: my reason for heaping things on
top of speakers is simply lack of space and the speaker tops are*
somewhere handy to put stuff!!

Since it's impossible to make a totally rigid speaker cabinet some makers
take into account any 'output' from the cabinet itself. Think the first to
do this was the Spendor BC1. Which was designed to be mounted on an open
stand about 9" high. Adding mass to the cabinet - like putting books on
top - would negate the design theory.

--
*If you try to fail, and succeed, which have you done?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Note also the weight on top of the speaker cabinets - have a friend who
stacks books on top of his speakers to eradicate cabinet resonances and
will try to find a pic (I know I've got one somewhere), but whether or
not that really wotks isn't important: my reason for heaping things on
top of speakers is simply lack of space and the speaker tops are*
somewhere handy to put stuff!!

Since it's impossible to make a totally rigid speaker cabinet some makers
take into account any 'output' from the cabinet itself. Think the first to
do this was the Spendor BC1. Which was designed to be mounted on an open
stand about 9" high. Adding mass to the cabinet - like putting books on
top - would negate the design theory.


The Rogers 'BBC Studio Monitors' I had here a while back were
'thinwall/resonating' types and sounded very good indeed, apart from the
rasping bass unit I couldn't cure - without spending a lot of money and
maybe changing the speakers characteristics too much, in any case....