In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


I reached the above conclusions some decades ago. :-) In fact, I
went on to decide that many of the LPs I bought had to be returned for
a replacement due to problems like audibly off-center holes, warps,
and assorted swishes, clicks, etc. One had a label so far off center
that it was pressed into the grooves.


This country had it sodding tough after the war and mass production of
anything had it moments of variability - the trick was to push through
the difficulties, make the best of what was often a less than perfect
job and forge ahead....

A better 'trick' might have been to realise that they'd go out of business
and be replaced by 'foreign' manufacturers if they couldn't be bothered to
deliver the same level of quality and reliability at competing prices.

But some UK makers of LPs simply assumed that they owned the artists that
people wanted to hear and would put up with crapping manufacturing at the
prices the suits the makers. I recall that EMI refused to produce CDs for a
long time. The real reason probably being that they didn't want to invest
in being able to make them, or the QC required. Easier to try and get
people to go on buying ever more poorly made LPs at lower prices, so they
thought...

Yes, maybe we had it 'tough', I recall that well enough from the 1950s and
early 1960s. But so did the Japanese and many others. However their
managers and owners realised they had to actually invest and focus on
quality and reliability, etc. Our managers tended to resort to 'whip and
whistle' and cutting back on apprentices, etc, etc. Other countries
realised you had to work at quality and skill. Pleading with people to 'Buy
British' 'because we had it tough' wasn't likely to do the 'trick'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't
recall the other components in the system....

I've never been one to believe the 'magic' of any turntable started by
that ****** Tiefenbrun. Simply ask that it goes round at the correct
steady speed and doesn't introduce or allow any additional movement to the
disc. All of which just requires good basic engineering.


Which is why my decks look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/L1000309.JPG

Actually the thin deck (in full working order) is really a 100% spares
inventory for the other. There's also a couple of sturdy but simple little
Technics decks with the all-important 'auto return' tonearms!

Here's a snap of my pal Pat's setup (then - I think it's gone now in favour
of a mini system) with his Transcriptors deck in place, to put it in the
context of the time:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...t%27sStuff.JPG

Spot the theme?

(Let's just say if they made a movie of him and his hifi, they'd probably
get Gert Frobe to play the part!! :-)

"Geoff Mackenzie" wrote in message
...

Wasn't there a turntable in the seventies which dispensed with the stylus
altogether, using instead some sort of optical pickup? Called the Finial,
or something like that.

You're off by about a decade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_turntable

"In 1983 Reis and fellow Stanford engineer Robert E. Stoddard founded Finial
Technology with $7 million in venture capital. A year later servo-control
expert Robert N. Stark joined the effort. A non-functioning mock-up of the
optical turntable was shown at the 1984 Consumer Electronics Show (CES),
generating much interest and a fair amount of mystery, since the patents had
not yet been granted and the details had to be kept secret. The first
working model, the Finial LT-1, was completed two years later and presented
at the 1986 CES."

Got reinvented and asked for more funding every six months or so.

"With over US$20 million in venture capital invested, Finial was faced with
a Hobson's choice: a selling price that was out-of-range for most consumers;
or gamble on going into mass production (thus lowering the selling price) at
the very moment the bottom was dropping out of the market (not to mention a
simultaneous recession). In late 1989, Finial's investors finally succumbed
to their bad timing and liquidated the firm, selling the patents to Japanese
turntable maker BSR, which became CTI Japan which in turn created ELP Japan
for continued development of the "super-audiophile" turntable. It finally
reached the market in 1997 as the ELP LT-1XA Laser Turntable with a list
price of US$20,500 (since reduced for subsequent models)."

IIRC only one escaped and was reviewed in HFN - worked reasonably well,
but was completely defeated by surface pops which came out at
ear-shattering levels.

"The prototype had an interesting flaw: it was so accurate that it played
every particle of dirt and dust on the record, rather than pushing them
aside as a conventional stylus would. "

I've seen one at CES and heard several transcriptions of LPs played with it,
and processed with computer software which can be pretty effective.

In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't
recall the other components in the system....

I've never been one to believe the 'magic' of any turntable started by
that ****** Tiefenbrun. Simply ask that it goes round at the correct
steady speed and doesn't introduce or allow any additional movement to the
disc. All of which just requires good basic engineering.


Which is why my decks look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/L1000309.JPG

Actually the thin deck (in full working order) is really a 100% spares
inventory for the other. There's also a couple of sturdy but simple little
Technics decks with the all-important 'auto return' tonearms!

Here's a snap of my pal Pat's setup (then - I think it's gone now in favour
of a mini system) with his Transcriptors deck in place, to put it in the
context of the time:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...t%27sStuff.JPG

Spot the theme?

Only theme I spot in *both* pics is turntables uncomfortably close to
speakers. ;-)

--
*How much deeper would the oceans be without sponges? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
I've heard a couple of quick snatches at various times from my pal's
Transcriptor (a Frank Sinatra clip, one of the times) and there was
absolutely nothing outstanding about the sound produced, but I can't
recall the other components in the system....

I've never been one to believe the 'magic' of any turntable started by
that ****** Tiefenbrun. Simply ask that it goes round at the correct
steady speed and doesn't introduce or allow any additional movement to
the
disc. All of which just requires good basic engineering.


Which is why my decks look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/L1000309.JPG

Actually the thin deck (in full working order) is really a 100% spares
inventory for the other. There's also a couple of sturdy but simple
little
Technics decks with the all-important 'auto return' tonearms!

Here's a snap of my pal Pat's setup (then - I think it's gone now in
favour
of a mini system) with his Transcriptors deck in place, to put it in the
context of the time:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...t%27sStuff.JPG

Spot the theme?

Only theme I spot in *both* pics is turntables uncomfortably close to
speakers. ;-)


Not at all. Where would you have them - out in front of the speakers
somewhere? If it helps, the pic of my kit I posted the link to was an old
one already on my webpage - this is how the deck looks right now (drives the
Fidelios on the extreme right and left):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Distances.jpg

About 4' from each speaker (not that it's ever made any odds) - that's the
best I can do. Makes this sound (recorded with a single Oktava MK319 about
3' in front of the deck):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ingExtract.mp3

???

shrug

"Keith G" wrote

'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of consumer
electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would interest
me; b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


Your lack of interest in his products doesn't seem to have done Sir Alan any
harm. Here he is, rolling in dough, TV star and government supremo for
something or other (I forget).

David.

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote

'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of consumer
electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would interest
me; b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


Your lack of interest in his products doesn't seem to have done Sir Alan
any harm. Here he is, rolling in dough, TV star and government supremo for
something or other (I forget).


So...???

Let me give you a clue how we think in my family: As a staunch/lifelong
Tory, my grandmother wasn't too thrilled when my grand-dad invited Clement
Attlee round for Sunday lunch on a couple of occasions (he was PM at the
time*) and also as a staunch Catholic, when the Pope of the day (long time
ago, now) decreed that RCs could eat meat on a Friday, she said words to the
effect 'WTF does he know? He's only the Pope!' and never did eat meat on a
Friday!

(OK not quite 'WTF' I believe, but you get the idea! :-)

Now, what were you saying about 'barrer boys'...??


*My mother was in the Red Cross with his daughter at the time and both he
and my grandfather were *serious spinach growers*!!

"Keith G" wrote

one already on my webpage - this is how the deck looks right now (drives
the Fidelios on the extreme right and left):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Distances.jpg



That is, when they don't look like this:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/Plex2.jpg

:-)

Now that's about me done - this group has become simply too slow and too
damn boring to bother with!

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote

'S'rallan' is the most consistent manufacturer in the history of
consumer electronics, AFAIC - he has yet to make anything that a) would
interest me; b) I would buy....

(Odious little barrow boy....)


Your lack of interest in his products doesn't seem to have done Sir Alan
any harm. Here he is, rolling in dough, TV star and government supremo
for something or other (I forget).


So...???

Ah!, you didn't understand my point - never mind. I wasn't defending Sir
Alan, I was pointing out that he probably doesn't care what you think about
him.

Let me give you a clue how we think in my family: As a staunch/lifelong
Tory, my grandmother wasn't too thrilled when my grand-dad invited Clement
Attlee round for Sunday lunch on a couple of occasions (he was PM at the
time*) and also as a staunch Catholic, when the Pope of the day (long time
ago, now) decreed that RCs could eat meat on a Friday, she said words to
the effect 'WTF does he know? He's only the Pope!' and never did eat meat
on a Friday!

(OK not quite 'WTF' I believe, but you get the idea! :-)

Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with anything?

David.

In article ,
David Looser wrote:
Sorry?, what the hell does that pointless anecdote have to do with
anything?

Remember he's a pal of Churches. Image is everything. ;-)

--
*I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.