In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

Arny's analogy is interesting, but, surprise, surprise, he completely
misses the point.

What "point"?

Neither does he even notice the 2lb of potatoes
added to his 5lb (CD) bag, at the request of his fellow consumers:-)

You've been asked time after time for evidence that these 2lb of
potatoes is there "at the request of his fellow consumers", yet
signally failed to do so.

David, You must get out of that comfy chair and do your own research,
Earlier this month I suggested a number of organisatiuons to whom you
could turn for info. Did you do so?

Since you made that response to David I have repeatedly asked on this group
for you to give the references to the AES papers you said existed. Can you
please now give some references to these as I'd like to have a look at
them?

I have the back issues of JAES and conference papers on CDROM, but have not
yet found any that supply evidence to show that the belief that people
'prefer' level compressed and clipped CDs is founded in reality. I would
like to read the AES papers you mentioned. Since you said they exist I
assume you can provide references.

There is of course ample evidence that the producers often do level
compress, etc. That point is not doubted. But it isn't the point I keep
asking about.

Also, you suggested I try talking to people in the biz who hold these
beliefs. I then asked you to supply a few names and contact details of
people who *would* speak to me about this *and* be willing to provide
evidence upon which their beliefs were founded. I'd like to repeat that
request here. If you give me that info I will - after Xmas and Hogmanay -
see if I can contact them. I realise you may wish to give me these details
privately, or ask the persons concerned first. That's fair enough.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Have you ever heard a decent big band live in a good venue, Iain?

Ah, at last, a mention of the venue. Reading Iain's talk about big-band
recording it was all about microphones - what about the acoustic environment
in which the music is played?

David.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
news


I still say it's extraordinarily good of you to hand this sort of
information out for *free*....


ahem ...particularly so when he hasn't been able to even give the few
references I asked him to provide to back up his own claims that they
existed. :-)

Kitty, of course, doesn't understand any of it hence the praise for Iain.
And Iain thinks just writing screeds of irrelevances with a few audio
snippets thrown in passes the exam.

Love the bit about asking record company PR people. When did this sort
ever give (or know) an honest view.


The whole thing was absurd, He wanted me to trawl through every issue of the
JAES looking for something that might be, but probably isn't, there, even
though I don't have any access to the JAES. He wanted me to go to a record
shop and ask customers ("Excuse me sir/madam, could you tell me whether you
prefer your records over-compressed and clipped, or not?") and finally he
thought that a record company PR executive would (a) understand the issue
and (b) talk in a meaningful way to a random member of the public about it.

It was all too ridiculous for words.

David.

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

It was all too ridiculous for words.

For more anecdotes, there's the gearslutz mastering forum.

Stephen

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Have you ever heard a decent big band live in a good venue, Iain?

Not only heard but recorded big bands in many locations around
Europe, including Copenhagen, the Rudolfinum (Prague) and
the Queen Elizabeth Hall. and the Round House
in London. Do these meet your crtiteria as good venues?

I also *play* in a semi-pro big band.
Tell us of your big band experiences please Dave.


Ah, at last, a mention of the venue. Reading Iain's talk about big-band
recording it was all about microphones - what about the acoustic
environment
in which the music is played?

You pick your recording method according to the acoustic of the
auditorium. These days there is almost always PA, which must
also be taken into account.

In a studio situation the importance of the acoustic environment
is greatly diminished. You can treat each section of the band as a
separate entity and place it in the acoustic of youe choice, by use
of reverb.So you can have The Manchester Free Trade Hall for
the brass, and the V+A for the woodwinds.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...

Ah, at last, a mention of the venue. Reading Iain's talk about big-band
recording it was all about microphones - what about the acoustic
environment
in which the music is played?

You pick your recording method according to the acoustic of the
auditorium. These days there is almost always PA, which must
also be taken into account.

Ah, so we are back to microphones again :-(

David.

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...

Ah, at last, a mention of the venue. Reading Iain's talk about big-band
recording it was all about microphones - what about the acoustic
environment
in which the music is played?

You pick your recording method according to the acoustic of the
auditorium. These days there is almost always PA, which must
also be taken into account.

Ah, so we are back to microphones again :-(

Well yes. The acoustic of a concert hall or auditorium is
something that you cannot normally do very much about,
so in the end it's all down to mic technique:-)

Many companies record in the same venues, St. John's.
Smith Square is a good example. Each recording sounds
different regardless of being made in the same acoustic
space.

Iain

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Many companies record in the same venues, St. John's.
Smith Square is a good example. Each recording sounds
different regardless of being made in the same acoustic
space.

One would hope so. Not much calling for lots of identical recordings...

--
*I started out with nothing... and I still have most of it.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
Many companies record in the same venues, St. John's.
Smith Square is a good example. Each recording sounds
different regardless of being made in the same acoustic
space.

One would hope so. Not much calling for lots of identical recordings...

I refer (of course) to the *sound* of those recordings,
not to the works recorded.

Iain

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Have you ever heard a decent big band live in a good venue, Iain?

Not only heard but recorded big bands in many locations around
Europe, including Copenhagen, the Rudolfinum (Prague) and
the Queen Elizabeth Hall. and the Round House
in London. Do these meet your crtiteria as good venues?

I also *play* in a semi-pro big band.
Tell us of your big band experiences please Dave.


Ah, at last, a mention of the venue. Reading Iain's talk about big-band
recording it was all about microphones - what about the acoustic
environment
in which the music is played?


Is that Looser arguing like **** for argument's sake again - where's the
'debate' ankle-biters when you need them?



You pick your recording method according to the acoustic of the
auditorium. These days there is almost always PA, which must
also be taken into account.

In a studio situation the importance of the acoustic environment
is greatly diminished. You can treat each section of the band as a
separate entity and place it in the acoustic of youe choice, by use
of reverb.So you can have The Manchester Free Trade Hall for
the brass, and the V+A for the woodwinds.



Frankly Iain, there more 'artifice' in a recording the worse, I feel - all
this *technology trickery* stems from people trying to create the 'perfect
sound forever' on crappy CDs, I suspect....