Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

"Fleetie" wrote

Famously "Death Magnetic", Metallica's most recent album.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Me...e_waveform.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_m...ing_production

Yes, I remember it being on the Radio 4 news. They played bits of the CD and
"Guitar Hero" versions to show the difference. My thoughts were that if even
Heavy-Metal fans were complaining about over-compression then the industry
really had lost the plot.


That alone was enough to stop me even thinking about buying it.

I'd pay good money, if necessary, to avoid having to listen to any
heavy-metal!

David.

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

David Looser wrote:

I'd pay good money, if necessary, to avoid having to listen to any
heavy-metal!

David.

Well, yeah.... You (one) can "look past" the "intimidating" aspect of
the fact that it is noisy and sung in a certain way, and listen to
the words, in some cases, and appreciate, and be moved by it.

For example "Sanatarium" by Metallica about mental illness is very
moving - moved me to tears a few times. I was at the time seeing a
girl with pretty serious mental health issues, and deeply in love with
her, but it was all a waste of my time and emotion, but that song
really was near to the bone; miserably beautiful. If you can see/hear
past the "heavy metal format" of some of those songs, they can be
very moving.

In the end I got thoroughly sick of her and her abuse and binned
her off.

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

"Iain Churches" wrote

Arny's analogy is interesting, but, surprise, surprise, he completely
misses the point.

What "point"?

Neither does he even notice the 2lb of potatoes
added to his 5lb (CD) bag, at the request of his fellow consumers:-)

You've been asked time after time for evidence that these 2lb of potatoes is
there "at the request of his fellow consumers", yet signally failed to do
so.

So I'm asking again, where is the evidence?

David.

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

Arny's analogy is interesting, but, surprise, surprise, he completely
misses the point.

What "point"?

Neither does he even notice the 2lb of potatoes
added to his 5lb (CD) bag, at the request of his fellow consumers:-)

You've been asked time after time for evidence that these 2lb of potatoes
is
there "at the request of his fellow consumers", yet signally failed to do
so.

David, You must get out of that comfy chair and do your
own research, Earlier this month I suggested a number
of organisatiuons to whom you could turn for info. Did
you do so?


So I'm asking again, where is the evidence?


Talk to record buyers about their expectations. Speak
with the PR manager from your favourite record label.


I wouold be *far* easier, and less expensive also to make
a CD prerpro master which an exact clone of the studio
original, with no further changes.

Ask yourself why this is not done.

Iain

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
You've been asked time after time for evidence that these 2lb of
potatoes is there "at the request of his fellow consumers", yet
signally failed to do so.

David, You must get out of that comfy chair and do your
own research, Earlier this month I suggested a number
of organisatiuons to whom you could turn for info. Did
you do so?

And you think you'd get a truthful reply? Didn't think even you so naive.

--
*What are the pink bits in my tyres? Cyclists & Joggers*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

Arny's analogy is interesting, but, surprise, surprise, he completely
misses the point.

What "point"?

Neither does he even notice the 2lb of potatoes
added to his 5lb (CD) bag, at the request of his fellow consumers:-)

You've been asked time after time for evidence that these 2lb of potatoes
is
there "at the request of his fellow consumers", yet signally failed to do
so.

David, You must get out of that comfy chair and do your
own research, Earlier this month I suggested a number
of organisatiuons to whom you could turn for info. Did
you do so?


You know damn well that such evidence doesn't exist, which is why you are
content to make absurd comments such as the above. And as it doesn't exist
I'm not going to be able to find it, am I? You are the one making the
claim - put up or admit you are tallking nonesense.


So I'm asking again, where is the evidence?


Talk to record buyers about their expectations.

And just how do you expect me to do that? Pay for a market research company
to do a survey for me?

Speak
with the PR manager from your favourite record label.

I don't have a "favorite record label". And you are the one *in* the
industry with the contacts. So if anybody is able to find out it's you. Your
refusal to do so is the clearest proof yet that you *know* there is no
evidence that record buyers prefer over-compressed records.

I wouold be *far* easier, and less expensive also to make
a CD prerpro master which an exact clone of the studio
original, with no further changes.

Ask yourself why this is not done.

I'm asking you. My guess is that producers make the records to please their
bosses, or to meet industry expectations, or as part of some idiotic
loudness "war" with other producers. But if I'm right is anybody in the
industry going to admit it? Do pigs fly?

David.

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote

Arny's analogy is interesting, but, surprise, surprise, he completely
misses the point.

What "point"?

Neither does he even notice the 2lb of potatoes
added to his 5lb (CD) bag, at the request of his fellow consumers:-)

You've been asked time after time for evidence that these 2lb of
potatoes is there "at the request of his fellow consumers", yet
signally failed to do so.

David, You must get out of that comfy chair and do your own research,
Earlier this month I suggested a number of organisatiuons to whom you
could turn for info. Did you do so?

Since you made that response to David I have repeatedly asked on this group
for you to give the references to the AES papers you said existed. Can you
please now give some references to these as I'd like to have a look at
them?

I have the back issues of JAES and conference papers on CDROM, but have not
yet found any that supply evidence to show that the belief that people
'prefer' level compressed and clipped CDs is founded in reality. I would
like to read the AES papers you mentioned. Since you said they exist I
assume you can provide references.

There is of course ample evidence that the producers often do level
compress, etc. That point is not doubted. But it isn't the point I keep
asking about.

Also, you suggested I try talking to people in the biz who hold these
beliefs. I then asked you to supply a few names and contact details of
people who *would* speak to me about this *and* be willing to provide
evidence upon which their beliefs were founded. I'd like to repeat that
request here. If you give me that info I will - after Xmas and Hogmanay -
see if I can contact them. I realise you may wish to give me these details
privately, or ask the persons concerned first. That's fair enough.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote

Have you ever heard a decent big band live in a good venue, Iain?

Ah, at last, a mention of the venue. Reading Iain's talk about big-band
recording it was all about microphones - what about the acoustic environment
in which the music is played?

David.

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...


I still say it's extraordinarily good of you to hand this sort of
information out for *free*....


ahem ...particularly so when he hasn't been able to even give the few
references I asked him to provide to back up his own claims that they
existed. :-)

Kitty, of course, doesn't understand any of it hence the praise for Iain.
And Iain thinks just writing screeds of irrelevances with a few audio
snippets thrown in passes the exam.

Love the bit about asking record company PR people. When did this sort
ever give (or know) an honest view.


The whole thing was absurd, He wanted me to trawl through every issue of the
JAES looking for something that might be, but probably isn't, there, even
though I don't have any access to the JAES. He wanted me to go to a record
shop and ask customers ("Excuse me sir/madam, could you tell me whether you
prefer your records over-compressed and clipped, or not?") and finally he
thought that a record company PR executive would (a) understand the issue
and (b) talk in a meaningful way to a random member of the public about it.

It was all too ridiculous for words.

David.

Compressed Music, Metallica's Disgrace, and Floyd
 

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

It was all too ridiculous for words.

For more anecdotes, there's the gearslutz mastering forum.

Stephen