On 10/01/2010 13:12, bcoombes wrote:
D.M. Procida wrote:
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

As for the system as a whole, I think that it's a bit over-bright and
tiring now, probably because of the room, and especially with harsher
sources like the Internet radio. I'm not sure what to do about that.

Somewhere in the dregs of my memory I seem to recall that those speakers
used to found a bit overbright by some reviewers so low bit rate music
*could* accentuate that. Maybe you could try towing them in at different
angles or moving them relative to the walls etc.

Yes, though I'm not sure how any of that's supposed to work.


Moving speaker positions by 'not very much' can make a really noticeable
difference at a particular listening position. I'm absolutely sure of
this from experience. However if you listen to music while in various
positions or while moving around it may not be worth doing. As for 'how
it works'..well..wave reflection/cancellation/addition/ etc. etc. If we
could see sound waves no doubt many people would be surprised at how
they could improve their setups for not much effort.


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

ISTR some magazine type (is/was there a Jimmy Hughes?) who advocated
turning speakers back to front for a while..??

Also, it makes no odds to me if my speakers get shifted about - the
sound is way out beyond them anyway!

Also, also, as I mentioned a little while back, you go into a secondhand
record shop and ask to hear a record and, with the speakers up near the
ceiling and invariably 90 degree on to each other (if not in separate
rooms), the sound is usually quite sublime....

.....and I believe the above mentioned JH pooted the postulation that
records would (for some obscure reason) tend to sound better in that
situation than when you got them back home and put them on to your own
(presumably superior) kit!

In summation - if the 'sweet spot' is so bloody small you can wreck it
by moving a speaker only slightly, you are using the wrong type of speaker!

Is my view....

;-)

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:09:25 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

That may demonstrate just how MUCH room effects matter, as compared to
direct sound. Though I'm a little surprised they didn't notice any
hf drop-off as the tweeters moved out of view.

On 10/01/2010 14:34, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:09:25 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

That may demonstrate just how MUCH room effects matter, as compared to
direct sound. Though I'm a little surprised they didn't notice any
hf drop-off as the tweeters moved out of view.


Yes, the wall behind the speakers is only painted - doubles as a cinema
screen!

Lack of HF would, I'm sure, be put down to using LPs (if I did each and
every time) and the speakers that were used on different occasions were
my Ruark Paladins a long time ago and more recently the JM-Labs I got
from Rob.

Never tried it with the 'horns' - dont' know why, but I wouldn't expect
it to work...???

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:28:05 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:

That may demonstrate just how MUCH room effects matter, as compared to
direct sound. Though I'm a little surprised they didn't notice any
hf drop-off as the tweeters moved out of view.


Yes, the wall behind the speakers is only painted - doubles as a cinema
screen!

Lack of HF would, I'm sure, be put down to using LPs (if I did each and
every time) and the speakers that were used on different occasions were
my Ruark Paladins a long time ago and more recently the JM-Labs I got
from Rob.

Interesting point. The ear is very adaptable and forgiving. I have a
theory that in the days of vinyl we might have subconsciously filtered
the surface noise and, along with it, any real hf content. There was
the common preference for mellow "tone" rather than hf extension - no
bad thing considering what was likely to be happening in the hf range!

Speaker manufacturers would be delighted to hear that in fact treble
propagated equally in all directions. But I fear it just isn't so.

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 14:09:25 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:

Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were never
sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker was
completely reversed!

That may demonstrate just how MUCH room effects matter, as compared to
direct sound. Though I'm a little surprised they didn't notice any
hf drop-off as the tweeters moved out of view.

Me too.

Keith Garratt wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were
never sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker
was completely reversed!


That's odd because I can detect somebody walking across the room with my
eyes closed when my system is playing. This is despite the fact that my
hearing is getting older....HF cutoff is now significant above 12 kHz...used
to be good for 16kHz.

TonyL wrote:
Keith Garratt wrote:

Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were
never sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker
was completely reversed!


That's odd because I can detect somebody walking across the room with my
eyes closed when my system is playing. This is despite the fact that my
hearing is getting older....HF cutoff is now significant above 12 kHz...used
to be good for 16kHz.



JEALOUS
8k for me.

On 10/01/2010 14:55, TonyL wrote:
Keith Garratt wrote:


Yes, but for all that I've had fun in the past by slowly rotating
speakers while people listened with their eyes shut and they were
never sure if they could hear any difference, even when the speaker
was completely reversed!


That's odd because I can detect somebody walking across the room with my
eyes closed when my system is playing. This is despite the fact that my
hearing is getting older....HF cutoff is now significant above 12 kHz...used
to be good for 16kHz.




OK, my wording is poor - the experiments with other people were turning
only one speaker - very slowly, taking about a minute to reverse the
speaker. But your comment reminds me that there were comments like 'are
you standing in front of the speaker' but the big thing was that nobody
(what? three different people I can remember) thought there was anything
at all wrong when the speaker was all the way round!

Try it yourself if you can find a willing subject - maybe it's just
'sloppy listening'!!

On my own I have reversed both speakers a number of times in the past
without getting the impression the sound had significantly deteriorated!
I don't get the 'sweet spot' thing - the speakers I am listening to
right now usually seem to get louder the further I move away from them!!

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:00:34 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:

I don't get the 'sweet spot' thing - the speakers I am listening to
right now usually seem to get louder the further I move away from them!!

"Sweet spot" is about the stereo image, not volume. And it's
generally reckoned to be a lot to do with how tightly hf beams from
the speaker.

On 10/01/2010 18:00, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 17:00:34 +0000, Keith Garratt
wrote:

I don't get the 'sweet spot' thing - the speakers I am listening to
right now usually seem to get louder the further I move away from them!!

"Sweet spot" is about the stereo image, not volume.


Yep.


And it's
generally reckoned to be a lot to do with how tightly hf beams from
the speaker.


Indeed, but we are open plan and what I am alluding to is that I listen
to and hear music as though the stereo image was (is) a solid object
that I can walk away from or even listen to from another room (when of
course it has become mono'd) and I am not aware of the music becoming
drastically 'unrecognisable' - whatever may be happening to the actual
sound!

In the final analysis, no two people in the same room hear exactly the
same sounds no matter what the source, do they?