Ribbon for Alto?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Posted in the spirit of a *no fees will be paid*/*no invitation to to
tender for a consultancy contract exists or is being offered*,
amateur/hobbyist enquiry* only does anybody disagree the ribbon mic
beats the Oktava for the alto sax** in these 'near identical'
(simultaneously recorded and edited, but not level matched) clips?

The STC 4038 ribbon - probably *the* classic mic of all time - is
excellent on sax. Of course they have to be in good condition. And it's
much more expensive to make a good ribbon mike than a condenser.

The STC 4033 also was an interesting idea with both a moving
coil and a ribbon element. STC made a condenser too, the
4108.

The STC 4038 ribbon was indeed a fine mic, but is rarer
than hen's teeth these days. Also it was not one of the
two microphones which we were asked to compare.

Ribbon for Alto?
 

Iain Churches wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Posted in the spirit of a *no fees will be paid*/*no invitation to to
tender for a consultancy contract exists or is being offered*,
amateur/hobbyist enquiry* only does anybody disagree the ribbon mic beats
the Oktava for the alto sax** in these 'near identical' (simultaneously
recorded and edited, but not level matched) clips?

(Please note the backing track is not properly *mixed* - merely being
played in the background over speakers for practice purposes!)

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipOktava.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipRibbon.wav


Only my recently acquired favourite 'Choob Mic' has succumbed
(temporarily, I hope) to the 'Gadget Pox' *pandemic* that we are currently
experiencing and is humming along with the tunes, so I gotta mess with one
of these two mics 'til I get it sorted!!

After only one listen, I would pick the ribbon. But
bear in mind that the results you ultimately achieve
are the combination of the mic you choose and
careful positioning in a given acoustic

People tend to avoid ribbons as they are fragile,
but with a little TLC they can last a lifetime.

Most people of our age in the UK remember Reslo
as the best-known ribbon mic manufacturer (the SR1
was often supplied with Ferrograph and Vortexion tape
recorders) but there was another British manufacturer
that made a good and very affordable ribbon mic,
The Film Industries M8. In the 1960s they cost the
grand sum of £8.15s or £10.7.6 with on/off switch.

One sees them occasionally on e.Bay. Something to look out for.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...dustriesM8.jpg


*(Also summat of a progress report for Iain! :-)

Appreciated:-)


Microphone placing for a saxophone is not as
straightforward as it is for a trumpet, trombone,
French horn where all the sound comes out of
one 'ole, the bell. But it is much easier than for
example the clarinet where you have to contend
with the three different sounding registers.

One often sees a mic just placed above the bell
of the saxophone. This may not prove to be the
optimum position. If you take a careful look at
the instrument, it will become clear that only the
lowest three notes, C, B, and Bb (written, not
concert) come out of the bell or near to it. The
other notes emerge from tone holes further up.

You seem to have chosen to set the mic well back
from the alto, Keith You might care to try a more
intimate, immediate sound. In which case try a position
which forms an equilateral triangle with the bell and
the top F key (that's the very first LH pearl key,
which it normally covered by any finger) Keeping
the two lower angles the same, zoom in and out
at right-angles to the body of the saxophone, a few
cms until you get what you want.

Iain

PS. Pity Santa has been and gone, this might have
been nice. I have seen them go for a lot more
money.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56


£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)

--
Bill Coombes

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"Iain Churches" wrote

After only one listen, I would pick the ribbon. But
bear in mind that the results you ultimately achieve
are the combination of the mic you choose and
careful positioning in a given acoustic


Not shove the mic out a ways into the room and jiggle about with the sound
levels a bit, then?

:-)



People tend to avoid ribbons as they are fragile,
but with a little TLC they can last a lifetime.


Mine gets handled right and stored right - bound to get buggered up,
eventually....



Most people of our age in the UK remember Reslo
as the best-known ribbon mic manufacturer (the SR1
was often supplied with Ferrograph and Vortexion tape
recorders) but there was another British manufacturer
that made a good and very affordable ribbon mic,
The Film Industries M8. In the 1960s they cost the
grand sum of £8.15s or £10.7.6 with on/off switch.

One sees them occasionally on e.Bay. Something to look out for.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...dustriesM8.jpg


That's a very nice looking mic!!


*(Also summat of a progress report for Iain! :-)

Appreciated:-)



OK, here's another one from about half an hour or so ago:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...he%20Child.wav


Recorded with my Samson USB multipattern mic!



One often sees a mic just placed above the bell
of the saxophone.


Or even clipped on to it!!!



You seem to have chosen to set the mic well back
from the alto, Keith You might care to try a more
intimate, immediate sound. In which case try a position
which forms an equilateral triangle with the bell and
the top F key (that's the very first LH pearl key,
which it normally covered by any finger) Keeping
the two lower angles the same, zoom in and out
at right-angles to the body of the saxophone, a few
cms until you get what you want.


OK, I've got a lot closer to that with the above recording but I was at full
stretch on the USB cable! Early days yet - almost 'any noise' for now and
refine it gradually as the 'performer' gets going!!



Iain

PS. Pity Santa has been and gone, this might have
been nice. I have seen them go for a lot more
money.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56



Oooh! Just like mine!

:-)

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...
Iain Churches wrote:


PS. Pity Santa has been and gone, this might have
been nice. I have seen them go for a lot more
money.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56


£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)



I've got one, but it's gone missing atm - I'll have to check down the back
of the sofa....

:-)

Ribbon for Alto?
 

Keith G wrote:

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...
Iain Churches wrote:


PS. Pity Santa has been and gone, this might have
been nice. I have seen them go for a lot more
money.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56



£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)



I've got one, but it's gone missing atm - I'll have to check down the
back of the sofa....


Worth a look, you could find the Berlin Philharmonic down there maybe.

--
Bill Coombes

Ribbon for Alto?
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:
The STC 4038 ribbon - probably *the* classic mic of all time - is
excellent on sax. Of course they have to be in good condition. And it's
much more expensive to make a good ribbon mike than a condenser.

The STC 4033 also was an interesting idea with both a moving
coil and a ribbon element.

Standard BBC TV studio boom mic for many a year - but not worth bothering
with now as they never sounded particularly good. Quality was traded for
robustness. And a mixture of elements with very different characteristics
to make a cardiod was really just a bodge - although interesting from the
historical point of view. But a 4038 still has its uses today.

STC made a condenser too, the
4108.

Not well regarded.

The STC 4038 ribbon was indeed a fine mic, but is rarer
than hen's teeth these days. Also it was not one of the
two microphones which we were asked to compare.

Dunno what happened to them all - the BBC had thousands. IIRC, TV Centre
Tech Op Stores had an inventory of some 300 when I worked there.
I *think* you can still buy them new - or certainly could a few years ago.
Made by Coles.

--
*A conclusion is the place where you got tired of thinking *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56


£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)


Naah! It's one of those tatty old valve mics that no one
wants these days:-)

I was at an auction a couple of years ago in
which two of these, with adjacent serial number
were sold for 180k DKr (the equivalent of
£20k for the pair)

Iain

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

The STC 4038 ribbon - probably *the* classic mic of all time - is
excellent on sax. Of course they have to be in good condition. And it's
much more expensive to make a good ribbon mike than a condenser.

Dunno what happened to them all - the BBC had thousands. IIRC, TV Centre
Tech Op Stores had an inventory of some 300 when I worked there.
I *think* you can still buy them new - or certainly could a few years ago.
Made by Coles.


Yes. still available, about UKP 700 each, or sold in boxed pairs.

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/micstudio.shtml

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote


(Please note the backing track is not properly *mixed* - merely being
played in the background over speakers for practice purposes!)

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipOktava.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipRibbon.wav



You seem to have chosen to set the mic well back
from the alto, Keith You might care to try a more
intimate, immediate sound. In which case try a position
which forms an equilateral triangle with the bell and
the top F key (that's the very first LH pearl key,
which it normally covered by any finger) Keeping
the two lower angles the same, zoom in and out
at right-angles to the body of the saxophone, a few
cms until you get what you want.


This little snatch was recorded in the same session as the above tracks
(Oktava):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/SoloSax1.wav


The postioning is/was very close to what you describe but at about a metre
away and off to one side of the instrument.

The reason for the distance is to reduce the amount of key noises being
picked up whilst hopefully being close enough to sound 'intimate' - I don't
like too much key/string/pedal noise in music if it can be avoided!

Ribbon for Alto?
 

In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,

The STC 4038 ribbon - probably *the* classic mic of all time - is
excellent on sax. Of course they have to be in good condition. And
it's much more expensive to make a good ribbon mike than a
condenser.

Dunno what happened to them all - the BBC had thousands. IIRC, TV
Centre Tech Op Stores had an inventory of some 300 when I worked
there. I *think* you can still buy them new - or certainly could a few
years ago. Made by Coles.


Yes. still available, about UKP 700 each, or sold in boxed pairs.

http://www.coleselectroacoustics.com/micstudio.shtml

As I said a good ribbon costs a great deal to make. ;-)

Remember years ago being involved in a live versus recorded demo at the
BBC. The speaker being used was a modified LSU 10 which started out having
a Parmeko 15" dual concentric but had been modified by BBC designs
department (and tested in their anechoic chamber) to take a Tannoy. Driven
by a Quad II valve amp.
We had a selection of instruments and a couple of jobbing musicians that
could make a fair fist of playing them. And an example of all the mics the
BBC used. Things like U77, C12, C414, C28, KM54, etc. As well as the
entire STC range.
The most natural combination that fooled everyone (blind test) - ie 50%
got it right - was an alto sax miked up with a 4038. On every other
combination of mic and instrument at least three quarters of the company
knew which was which.

--
*Preserve wildlife - Go pickle a squirrel*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.