Ribbon for Alto?
 

Iain Churches wrote:
"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56

£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)


Naah! It's one of those tatty old valve mics that no one
wants these days:-)

I was at an auction a couple of years ago in
which two of these, with adjacent serial number
were sold for 180k DKr (the equivalent of
£20k for the pair)


Hmm, Iain, I don't know if you know this but if you were to take one of these
mics and hitch it up to really good electrostatic [say] speaker [via suitable
amplification] and then speak into it how would the sound coming out of the
speaker compare with the original voice? And also say a modern decent quality mic?


--
Bill Coombes

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
...
Iain Churches wrote:
"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56

£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)


Naah! It's one of those tatty old valve mics that no one
wants these days:-)

I was at an auction a couple of years ago in
which two of these, with adjacent serial number
were sold for 180k DKr (the equivalent of
£20k for the pair)


Hmm, Iain, I don't know if you know this but if you were to take one of
these mics and hitch it up to really good electrostatic [say] speaker [via
suitable amplification] and then speak into it how would the sound coming
out of the speaker compare with the original voice? And also say a modern
decent quality mic?

Bill.
The Neumann u87 (priced at a little under UKP2k)
can be regarded as the modern bench-mark by which
other large capsule condenser mics are judged. For
"pencil mics" the KM184 (about UKP600) is the modern
standard. The sound of the original M49 is so much sought
after that Neumann (and other manufacturers too) have tried
to emulate it in their current models. The TLM 49 (priced
at around UKP1200) is a good example.

I have done the experiment you describe above, (but
not with ELS) by "parallel rigging" of pairs. The M49
(for example with strings), is astonishingly good, a
big, warm, open sound, especially if you use a
Baroque-style layout with the celli in the centre, and
violins and violas either side.

But old mics do need copious TLC.
In an effort to make them virtually maintenance free,
many vintage mics 47s, 49s, 50s were converted to FET
in the 1970s. They were quieter, and phantom powered
straight from the desk, so the separate PSU was no longer
required. Some ten to fifteen years later, people
began to change these same mics back to valve again.
Most of the old PSUs were long gone, either to landfill
or broken for parts. There are specialists in the UK and
Germany who restore these fine old mics. They also
offer new power supplies.

They are not particularly rare, most broadcasting facilities
and larger studios had them in good numbers, but the fact
that they very seldom come up for sale pushes up the price.

Cheers
Iain

Ribbon for Alto?
 

In article ,
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:
Iain Churches wrote:
"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56

£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)


Naah! It's one of those tatty old valve mics that no one wants these
days:-)

I was at an auction a couple of years ago in which two of these, with
adjacent serial number were sold for 180k DKr (the equivalent of £20k
for the pair)


Hmm, Iain, I don't know if you know this but if you were to take one of
these mics and hitch it up to really good electrostatic [say] speaker
[via suitable amplification] and then speak into it how would the sound
coming out of the speaker compare with the original voice? And also say
a modern decent quality mic?

One difficulty is that many even studio quality mics have a rising
frequency response curve at the upper end. Won't go into the reasons here.
So you'll likely need to have a high quality equaliser in chain too to get
the best results. Mic positioning is critical too. Too close sounds
unnatural - after all most don't speak an inch or so from your ear. Too
far away and it will pick up too much room acoustic which the speaker then
doubles up.

I've done this ages ago using the original Quad ESL 57 - and a U77 mic
via a Neve console for the EQ. The results were pretty good. But this was
in a recording studio with a fairly dead acoustic. It's a bit more
difficult in an ordinary hall - you do need somewhere quite large to be
able to hide the speaker, etc, if doing blind tests. It also needs to be
very quiet as any extraneous sounds on the recording/speaker will be an
instant giveaway.

--
*I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect; therefore I am perfect*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

This little snatch was recorded in the same session as the above tracks
(Oktava):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/SoloSax1.wav


The postioning is/was very close to what you describe but at about a metre
away and off to one side of the instrument.

The reason for the distance is to reduce the amount of key noises being
picked up whilst hopefully being close enough to sound 'intimate' - I
don't like too much key/string/pedal noise in music if it can be avoided!

Well, both key noise and breathing are part of the sound,
and it is good for the player, any player, to realise how well
these are picked up, so that he/she can reduce them as required.
Clattery fingerwork is common even in intermediate players -
there are so many other things that demand your attention.
One of the amazing things about watching clips of Ben Webster
for example, is that although he is playing very fast indeed,
he moves his fingers just enough to press the key - no more!
Much can be achieved by careful (low) key action and choice
of alternative fingerings (adding is quieter than substitution)

But the alto is a sweeter sounding saxophone than the tenor,
and is not expected to provide a honky sound, so perhaps a
little distance lends enchantment:-) It's fun to experiment.

Iain

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:

Hmm, Iain, I don't know if you know this but if you were to take one of
these mics and hitch it up to really good electrostatic [say] speaker
[via suitable amplification] and then speak into it how would the sound
coming out of the speaker compare with the original voice? And also say
a modern decent quality mic?

I've done this ages ago using the original Quad ESL 57 - and a U77 mic
via a Neve console for the EQ. The results were pretty good. But this was
in a recording studio with a fairly dead acoustic. It's a bit more
difficult in an ordinary hall - you do need somewhere quite large to be
able to hide the speaker, etc, if doing blind tests. It also needs to be
very quiet as any extraneous sounds on the recording/speaker will be an
instant giveaway.


If memory serves the u77 was the first FET mic from Neumann.
It sounded dull and dry compared with its famous predecessor
the u67. Decca didn't buy any even under the "new lamps for old"
scheme. Neither did it compare favourably with its successor the
venerable u87. I wonder if anyone still uses them?

Iain

Ribbon for Alto?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
bcoombes bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote:
Iain Churches wrote:
"bcoombes" bcoombes@orangedotnet wrote in message
o.uk...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56

£7195.....!!! Ah I see, it comes with a recording studio as well. :)


Naah! It's one of those tatty old valve mics that no one wants these
days:-)

I was at an auction a couple of years ago in which two of these, with
adjacent serial number were sold for 180k DKr (the equivalent of £20k
for the pair)


Hmm, Iain, I don't know if you know this but if you were to take one of
these mics and hitch it up to really good electrostatic [say] speaker
[via suitable amplification] and then speak into it how would the sound
coming out of the speaker compare with the original voice? And also say
a modern decent quality mic?

One difficulty is that many even studio quality mics have a rising
frequency response curve at the upper end. Won't go into the reasons here.

Perhaps that's one of the reasons why so many like the sound
of the original U47 and M49. Their response is tapering off
at the upper end.

Iain