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Ribbon for Alto?



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 22nd 10, 09:00 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Keith G[_2_]
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Posts: 2,151
Default Ribbon for Alto?

Posted in the spirit of a *no fees will be paid*/*no invitation to to tender
for a consultancy contract exists or is being offered*, amateur/hobbyist
enquiry* only does anybody disagree the ribbon mic beats the Oktava for the
alto sax** in these 'near identical' (simultaneously recorded and edited,
but not level matched) clips?

(Please note the backing track is not properly *mixed* - merely being played
in the background over speakers for practice purposes!)

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipOktava.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipRibbon.wav


Only my recently acquired favourite 'Choob Mic' has succumbed (temporarily,
I hope) to the 'Gadget Pox' *pandemic* that we are currently experiencing
and is humming along with the tunes, so I gotta mess with one of these two
mics 'til I get it sorted!!

Responses appreciated; all calls and texts returned, your photo gets mine,
&c....


*(Also summat of a progress report for Iain! :-)

**Very recently arrived; Swim Bo's earliest efforts....!!


  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd 10, 07:44 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 637
Default Ribbon for Alto?

Not heard it, but the polar diagram and responses of ribbon mikes always
make things sound different.
Very fragile mics too.
Brian

--
Brian Gaff -
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Posted in the spirit of a *no fees will be paid*/*no invitation to to
tender for a consultancy contract exists or is being offered*,
amateur/hobbyist enquiry* only does anybody disagree the ribbon mic beats
the Oktava for the alto sax** in these 'near identical' (simultaneously
recorded and edited, but not level matched) clips?

(Please note the backing track is not properly *mixed* - merely being
played in the background over speakers for practice purposes!)

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipOktava.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipRibbon.wav


Only my recently acquired favourite 'Choob Mic' has succumbed
(temporarily, I hope) to the 'Gadget Pox' *pandemic* that we are currently
experiencing and is humming along with the tunes, so I gotta mess with one
of these two mics 'til I get it sorted!!

Responses appreciated; all calls and texts returned, your photo gets mine,
&c....


*(Also summat of a progress report for Iain! :-)

**Very recently arrived; Swim Bo's earliest efforts....!!




  #3 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd 10, 11:26 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Keith G[_2_]
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Posts: 2,151
Default Ribbon for Alto?


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
. ..
Not heard it,



Hah!


but the polar diagram and responses of ribbon mikes always
make things sound different.
Very fragile mics too.



Yes, I know but I think I'm looking for someone to give me a 'by a country
mile' verdict!

I like them both and (as usual) can never decide - the 'early days'
raggedy-arsed playing doesn't help, I know....



  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd 10, 03:00 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Dave Plowman (News)
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Posts: 5,872
Default Ribbon for Alto?

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
Posted in the spirit of a *no fees will be paid*/*no invitation to to
tender for a consultancy contract exists or is being offered*,
amateur/hobbyist enquiry* only does anybody disagree the ribbon mic
beats the Oktava for the alto sax** in these 'near identical'
(simultaneously recorded and edited, but not level matched) clips?


The STC 4038 ribbon - probably *the* classic mic of all time - is
excellent on sax. Of course they have to be in good condition. And it's
much more expensive to make a good ribbon mike than a condenser.

--
*Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd 10, 03:32 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Keith G[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,151
Default Ribbon for Alto?


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
. ..
Not heard it,



Hah!


but the polar diagram and responses of ribbon mikes always
make things sound different.
Very fragile mics too.



Yes, I know but I think I'm looking for someone to give me a 'by a country
mile' verdict!

I like them both and (as usual) can never decide - the 'early days'
raggedy-arsed playing doesn't help, I know....



OK, OK, I get it - 'neither one, go and fix the valve mic', eh?

Replaced this (probably perfectly OK) JAN Philips with a nice little
'Chelmer' badged short plate (for, er, low microphony) Sovtek 12AX7 and
thought I had at least significantly reduced the hum for a while, but it's
back now!!

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/AKG-1.jpg


(Guess I now know why the mic was on eBay!! :-)

Here is a shot of the orange LED that makes the valve 'light up':

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/AKG-2.jpg


I tell ya, the most common cause of death will soon be 'Bull****
Overload'....



  #6 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd 10, 03:46 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
bcoombes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 323
Default Ribbon for Alto?

Keith G wrote:


Here is a shot of the orange LED that makes the valve 'light up':

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/AKG-2.jpg


I tell ya, the most common cause of death will soon be 'Bull****
Overload'....


LMAO...it's good to see tube technology moving forward.



--
Bill Coombes
  #7 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd 10, 08:56 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
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Posts: 3,850
Default Ribbon for Alto?

"Brian Gaff" wrote in message

Not heard it, but the polar diagram and responses of
ribbon mikes always make things sound different.
Very fragile mics too.


Remember the naive audiophile's mantra: "If it sounds different, it must
sound better". ;-)


  #8 (permalink)  
Old January 24th 10, 12:42 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Ian Iveson
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Posts: 244
Default Ribbon for Alto?

Keith G wrote:

OK, OK, I get it - 'neither one, go and fix the valve
mic', eh?

Replaced this (probably perfectly OK) JAN Philips with a
nice little 'Chelmer' badged short plate (for, er, low
microphony) Sovtek 12AX7 and thought I had at least
significantly reduced the hum for a while, but it's back
now!!

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/AKG-1.jpg


(Guess I now know why the mic was on eBay!! :-)

Here is a shot of the orange LED that makes the valve
'light up':



Hum?

Power supply should supply regulated DC for heaters and HT.
Does yours have a "ground lift" switch?

AKG mics seem to be well supported with info such as he

http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/...5d251a2cd0.pdf

Ian


  #9 (permalink)  
Old January 24th 10, 10:36 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Keith G[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,151
Default Ribbon for Alto?


"Ian Iveson" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

OK, OK, I get it - 'neither one, go and fix the valve mic', eh?

Replaced this (probably perfectly OK) JAN Philips with a nice little
'Chelmer' badged short plate (for, er, low microphony) Sovtek 12AX7 and
thought I had at least significantly reduced the hum for a while, but
it's back now!!

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/AKG-1.jpg


(Guess I now know why the mic was on eBay!! :-)

Here is a shot of the orange LED that makes the valve 'light up':



Hum?

Power supply should supply regulated DC for heaters and HT. Does yours
have a "ground lift" switch?



Yes and I'm sure I've tried it both ways, but I'll have a more careful look
at it in the week. I don't think it is the valve, but if it was, there's
always the chance I've swapped one noisy valve for another!


AKG mics seem to be well supported with info such as he

http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/...5d251a2cd0.pdf



Thanks for that - I have already got that somewhere but I don't think I'll
be stripping it down that far myself. If it comes to it, I'll send it off to
have it serviced by someone who knows what he is doing!

Reading some of the information about these mics on the Net I'm seeing a lot
of people have swapped the valve for the *exact same* Mullard I gave/loaned
to a friend for use in his Croft preamp which the *****ing idiot*
suddenly/surprisingly sold, letting the Mullard go with it!

Worth about 40 quid at the time, IIRC - I had forgotten that; now I am
reminded....


  #10 (permalink)  
Old January 24th 10, 06:13 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Iain Churches[_2_]
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Posts: 1,648
Default Ribbon for Alto?


"Keith G" wrote in message
...
Posted in the spirit of a *no fees will be paid*/*no invitation to to
tender for a consultancy contract exists or is being offered*,
amateur/hobbyist enquiry* only does anybody disagree the ribbon mic beats
the Oktava for the alto sax** in these 'near identical' (simultaneously
recorded and edited, but not level matched) clips?

(Please note the backing track is not properly *mixed* - merely being
played in the background over speakers for practice purposes!)

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipOktava.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ClipRibbon.wav


Only my recently acquired favourite 'Choob Mic' has succumbed
(temporarily, I hope) to the 'Gadget Pox' *pandemic* that we are currently
experiencing and is humming along with the tunes, so I gotta mess with one
of these two mics 'til I get it sorted!!


After only one listen, I would pick the ribbon. But
bear in mind that the results you ultimately achieve
are the combination of the mic you choose and
careful positioning in a given acoustic

People tend to avoid ribbons as they are fragile,
but with a little TLC they can last a lifetime.

Most people of our age in the UK remember Reslo
as the best-known ribbon mic manufacturer (the SR1
was often supplied with Ferrograph and Vortexion tape
recorders) but there was another British manufacturer
that made a good and very affordable ribbon mic,
The Film Industries M8. In the 1960s they cost the
grand sum of £8.15s or £10.7.6 with on/off switch.

One sees them occasionally on e.Bay. Something to look out for.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches...dustriesM8.jpg



*(Also summat of a progress report for Iain! :-)


Appreciated:-)



Microphone placing for a saxophone is not as
straightforward as it is for a trumpet, trombone,
French horn where all the sound comes out of
one 'ole, the bell. But it is much easier than for
example the clarinet where you have to contend
with the three different sounding registers.

One often sees a mic just placed above the bell
of the saxophone. This may not prove to be the
optimum position. If you take a careful look at
the instrument, it will become clear that only the
lowest three notes, C, B, and Bb (written, not
concert) come out of the bell or near to it. The
other notes emerge from tone holes further up.

You seem to have chosen to set the mic well back
from the alto, Keith You might care to try a more
intimate, immediate sound. In which case try a position
which forms an equilateral triangle with the bell and
the top F key (that's the very first LH pearl key,
which it normally covered by any finger) Keeping
the two lower angles the same, zoom in and out
at right-angles to the body of the saxophone, a few
cms until you get what you want.

Iain

PS. Pity Santa has been and gone, this might have
been nice. I have seen them go for a lot more
money.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEUMANN-M49-M-...item4ced1c1b56











 




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