Cognitive dissonance?
 

These rough and ready 'test clips' are recorded with two different mics, one
of which only arrived today and cost about *four times* the price of the
other, so is obviously much better; the only question is which is it - A or
B..??

(The mics stay with the same letter throughout and the 'Piano' clips are a
finger walk up and down the keyboard only - due to a badly buzzing 'string'
making tunes impossible atm!)

Have fun!

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-ClartA.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-ClartB.wav


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-PianoA.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-PianoB.wav


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...rison-SaxA.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...rison-SaxB.wav


Answers on a postcard, but no fees will be paid, no contract is on offer....

(As usual, I will reveal all if/when someone has had a go at it! :-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

These rough and ready 'test clips' are recorded with two different mics,

Meant to say recorded *simultaneously* with two different mics - one on one
channel; the other on the other channnel, needless to say!!

Cognitive dissonance?
 

Keith G wrote:

These rough and ready 'test clips' are recorded with two different
mics,

Meant to say recorded *simultaneously* with two different mics - one
on one channel; the other on the other channnel, needless to say!!

Not a lot in it, but B has the edge for me. I get the impression it's
resolving more detail.

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:23:32 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


These rough and ready 'test clips' are recorded with two different mics, one
of which only arrived today and cost about *four times* the price of the
other, so is obviously much better; the only question is which is it - A or
B..??

I'll have a listen later.

But more important things first. If YOU can't tell, obviously the
more expensive one has to be packed and returned asap. Most retailers
give you a week to return goods, no questions asked, don't they?

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

These rough and ready 'test clips' are recorded with two different
mics,

Meant to say recorded *simultaneously* with two different mics - one
on one channel; the other on the other channnel, needless to say!!

Not a lot in it, but B has the edge for me. I get the impression it's
resolving more detail.



OK, Wally - noted, many thanks! I'll reveal all in due course.

Still got your MR2? Swim's has gone now - she got 60 quid for it!! :-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

Well, B is brighter. Maybe a bit too bright. But that's why mixing
desks and DAWs have eq. Bright can be useful, as long as the mic
responds graciously to eq when you don't want that instrument to cut
through.

It might be interesting to eq each sample until it sounded "best",
THEN compare. If anyone else wants to try, I suggest they access
them through the root web page:
http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/show.html

That way it's easier to intercept and save the files before they open
in your default player! Otherwise you have to go digging around in
Temporary Internet Files, which is tedious.

You really need to do something about that key noise on the
instruments!

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:23:32 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


These rough and ready 'test clips' are recorded with two different mics,
one
of which only arrived today and cost about *four times* the price of the
other, so is obviously much better; the only question is which is it - A
or
B..??

I'll have a listen later.

But more important things first. If YOU can't tell, obviously the
more expensive one has to be packed and returned asap. Most retailers
give you a week to return goods, no questions asked, don't they?


That's not what it's about, Laurence; I'm as chuffed as a chuffed person
with both mics, but my opinion isn't important - I know which one sounds
best because I know what they cost (see Subject Line!) and, asitappens, I
like them both!!

But I've done some checking and the 'cheaper' mic isn't quite so cheap any
more (first bloody time I've ever had an *investment* in audio gear!), so
the expensive mic is only about 2.5x the cheaper one!

OK, OK - one of the mics is a dinky little Neumann TLM102 which arrived
today:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...mannTLM102.jpg


The other is my trusty Oktava MK-319.

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ktavaMK319.jpg


What I'm after finding out is what *others* think of the comparative sound
and, I guess, whether the Neumann is in any way immediately
'outstanding'..???

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
Well, B is brighter. Maybe a bit too bright. But that's why mixing
desks and DAWs have eq. Bright can be useful, as long as the mic
responds graciously to eq when you don't want that instrument to cut
through.

It might be interesting to eq each sample until it sounded "best",
THEN compare.


Hmmm, I didn't want to get into all that just yet (if ever) - right now, I
just record the stuff! If it needs to do more than simply provide 'instant
replay/playback' for Swim Bo at this stage, then the *producer* concerned
can sort it out!! (And he knows who he is!! ;-)

(I actually tried a little reverb on the sax the other night and we both
thought it sounded worse!! :-)


You really need to do something about that key noise on the
instruments!


Next step, having made my mic selection, is to concentrate on placement and
I hope that will help with key noise (I don't like it either) - after that
it's down to the 'artiste'....!!

Now, enough about me - let's talk about *you* for a while - how's it going
with the old Trom Bone?

Had a bit of a wheeze through it yet?

:-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

Look at this:
http://www.auym23.dsl.pipex.com/show/show.html

Same bit of music on mics A and B. The only way I can explain such a
discrepancy in the volume envelopes is if the mics were MUCH too close
to the clarinet. That would explain the excessive key noise too.

Want to try again with the mics at least a couple of feet back? That
might give something more meaningful.

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:10:29 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

I know which one sounds
best because I know what they cost

Shouldn't there be a smilie after that? :-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

Laurence Payne wrote:
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:10:29 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

I know which one sounds
best because I know what they cost

Shouldn't there be a smiley after that? :-)

No, cognitive dissonance doesn't work that way.

--
Bill Coombes

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:10:29 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

I know which one sounds
best because I know what they cost

Shouldn't there be a smilie after that? :-)


No need, there was a '(see Subject Line!)' instead.

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:10:29 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, OK - one of the mics is a dinky little Neumann TLM102 which arrived
today:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...mannTLM102.jpg


The other is my trusty Oktava MK-319.

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ktavaMK319.jpg

Both aimed primarily to flatter vocals, I think? I'd be interested to
hear them doing that job. Got anything?

Now, rather than putting them (and the clarinet) under the microscope,
how about trying for the BEST sound you can get from each? I'd also
be fascinated to hear a two-channel recording (if I said "stereo" I'd
quite rightly be shouted down :-) using the pair of them, spaced a few
inches apart, at least a foot in front of the clarinet.

The trombone will have to wait until I retire. I'd get no pleasure
from playing it badly, and I know how much regular commitment it takes
to play it well.

Speaking of which, last summer I sat in with this lot
http://www.oompahband.com/home.html
when they were short of an accordion player for a few gigs (I did it
on keyboard. And yes, I did get to wear the blonde wig. Search for
me on Facebook if you want proof.)
The point being, their trombone player was EXCELLENT. Not, mind you,
that he was doing anything a flute couldn't ... :-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
Look at this:
http://www.auym23.dsl.pipex.com/show/show.html

Same bit of music on mics A and B. The only way I can explain such a
discrepancy in the volume envelopes is if the mics were MUCH too close
to the clarinet. That would explain the excessive key noise too.


I don't think they were, but ideal pacement isn't possible when you have two
mic stands trying to occupy the the same spot. I've made my choice of mics
for now and will be experimenting (in a slapdash, careless, slack-arsed,
*hobbyist* kind of way) to find the 'sweet spot' for both the clarinet and
the sax - in those recordings, one morphed into the other while I was having
a bit of a nap, earlier on!

I'm going to have to go again for the piano when we get the buzz sorted out.



Want to try again with the mics at least a couple of feet back? That
might give something more meaningful.


No, that's done and dusted now - counting an offlist 'vote' (Iain, right on
the money, as you might expect) and you as an A, I take it I've got 3 As and
1 B so far!

??

;-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:10:29 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, OK - one of the mics is a dinky little Neumann TLM102 which arrived
today:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...mannTLM102.jpg


The other is my trusty Oktava MK-319.

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...ktavaMK319.jpg

Both aimed primarily to flatter vocals, I think?



What the 'sounds like ****' 6 kHz lift?

:-)


I'd be interested to
hear them doing that job. Got anything?


No.



Now, rather than putting them (and the clarinet) under the microscope,
how about trying for the BEST sound you can get from each? I'd also
be fascinated to hear a two-channel recording (if I said "stereo" I'd
quite rightly be shouted down :-) using the pair of them, spaced a few
inches apart, at least a foot in front of the clarinet.


All those recording were done as two channel recordings, I split them to
make it easier for people to compare - it don't work too well hearing one
mic in only one channel and then the other mic in the other channel. As they
are/were wavs, I also did them as mono instead of the more-convincing
(bigger) 'dual mono' which of course uses more webspace.



The trombone will have to wait until I retire. I'd get no pleasure
from playing it badly, and I know how much regular commitment it takes
to play it well.


Hmm...

We're talking about the UKRAinian All Stars here - sinners, beginners,
learners and sundry other low-wage earners, not the bloody Philharmonic!!



Speaking of which, last summer I sat in with this lot
http://www.oompahband.com/home.html
when they were short of an accordion player for a few gigs (I did it
on keyboard.


OK, keyboard then?


And yes, I did get to wear the blonde wig. Search for
me on Facebook if you want proof.)


Facebook?


The point being, their trombone player was EXCELLENT. Not, mind you,
that he was doing anything a flute couldn't ... :-)


:-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Keith G" wrote


We're talking about the UKRAinian All Stars here - sinners, beginners,
learners and sundry other low-wage earners, not the bloody Philharmonic!!


Also push a 'returners' in there where it looks best....

;-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:09:33 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

I don't think they were, but ideal pacement isn't possible when you have two
mic stands trying to occupy the the same spot.

I found one of these
http://www.thomann.de/gb/k+m_235-50.htm
very useful. Just cheap enough to dissuade me from going down to the
shed and making something.
Then, if you have any lingering suspicion that expensive=better, work
out why this
http://www.thomann.de/gb/schoeps_ums_20.htm
costs so much more :-)

Treat yourself to a pair of these too
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em700_stereoset.htm

You like experimenting I think? At that price, why not? They might
suit the clarinet better than a large-diaphragm vocal mic. And even
non-purist "stereo" gives the sound such a lift.

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:22:26 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

We're talking about the UKRAinian All Stars here - sinners, beginners,
learners and sundry other low-wage earners, not the bloody Philharmonic!!

I play like crap often enough by mistake, without SETTING OUT to play
like crap :-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:22:26 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

We're talking about the UKRAinian All Stars here - sinners, beginners,
learners and sundry other low-wage earners, not the bloody Philharmonic!!

I play like crap often enough by mistake, without SETTING OUT to play
like crap :-)



Nobody's setting out to play crap, this first effort:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


Was indisputably the best bit of music *ever* posted here that was played
and recorded only by ukra subscribers, their friends and family in no less
than 3 different countries!!

No?

:-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:09:33 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

I don't think they were, but ideal pacement isn't possible when you have
two
mic stands trying to occupy the the same spot.

I found one of these
http://www.thomann.de/gb/k+m_235-50.htm
very useful. Just cheap enough to dissuade me from going down to the
shed and making something.
Then, if you have any lingering suspicion that expensive=better, work
out why this
http://www.thomann.de/gb/schoeps_ums_20.htm
costs so much more :-)

Treat yourself to a pair of these too
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em700_stereoset.htm


Been there, done all that with a pair of very nice, factory-matched SE1A
'pencil mics'.



You like experimenting I think?


Yes, whenever possible I like to try stuff out for myself - in all areas,
not just 'hifi' stuff.

Hence dropping the dosh on a not-so-cheap Neumann mic - I already *know*
they are good (or at least well-regarded by just about everybody), I just
needed to hear it for myself.

I already love it! :-)



At that price, why not? They might
suit the clarinet better than a large-diaphragm vocal mic. And even
non-purist "stereo" gives the sound such a lift.


Don't need or want 'stereo' - I work with only two channels in Sound Forge
and need one for the backing, as in this track (mixed down to mono):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...he%20Child.wav


****e for all I know, but Swim had had that sax for less than a week at the
time, IIRC and we like it!

:-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:54:35 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:



Don't need or want 'stereo' - I work with only two channels in Sound Forge
and need one for the backing, as in this track (mixed down to mono):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...he%20Child.wav


****e for all I know, but Swim had had that sax for less than a week at the
time, IIRC and we like it!

Oh go on, sort out a multitrack recorder (isn't there even a free
one?) and let that music fill a bit more space! The organ is crying
out to be in stereo, and a touch of stereo reverb would be lovely on
the sax. Then a bit more of a different reverb overall, just to put
everyone in the same room.

Did you play the backing track, or was it bought in?

Cognitive dissonance?
 

Keith G wrote:

Not a lot in it, but B has the edge for me. I get the impression it's
resolving more detail.

OK, Wally - noted, many thanks! I'll reveal all in due course.

Caveat - I listened on my cheapo "Advent" brand headphones. On those, I
thought the clarinet was easiest to tell apart. Mic A sounded rounder or
maybe softer than B. I felt B gave a better impression of there being a
reed. The piano was harder to tell apart - it was more just the odd note
that stood out. A bit like the clart, when I felt there was a difference, B
gave more of the impression of vibrating strings. I think that translates
into a bit more top end. I struggled to hear any difference between the mics
with the sax.

Still got your MR2? Swim's has gone now - she got 60 quid for it!! :-)

Somebody got a serious bargain at that price. :) Yep, still got mine.
Brilliant motors - still feels great every time I get into it.

If you're looking for musos for the UKRAnian All Stars, I might be
interested in having a bash at something. Kinda depends on the tune - ie,
whether or not I can improvise something, and on whether I can play a
suitable instrument to a standard that's better than crap. (Is 'rubbish'
better than 'crap'?) I used to be decent at guitar until I stopped playing
about three years ago, I'm crap at piano, and I'm an unknown quantity on
MIDI keyboard plus old Hammond sound module (been meaning to set that up and
plug it into a valve guitar amp to see how it sounds).

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:54:35 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:



Don't need or want 'stereo' - I work with only two channels in Sound Forge
and need one for the backing, as in this track (mixed down to mono):

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...he%20Child.wav


****e for all I know, but Swim had had that sax for less than a week at
the
time, IIRC and we like it!

Oh go on, sort out a multitrack recorder (isn't there even a free
one?) and let that music fill a bit more space! The organ is crying
out to be in stereo, and a touch of stereo reverb would be lovely on
the sax. Then a bit more of a different reverb overall, just to put
everyone in the same room.



****! You want me to redecorate the living room as well??


Did you play the backing track, or was it bought in?


It's on a 'play along' disk that comes with the music.

I've got to get Swim Bo into the habit of regular practice and playing a lot
better before I burn too many braincells on it all - she bought me a copy of
Sound On Sound at the weekend and I got that 'standing on the edge of a very
deep abyss' feeling while I was flicking through it!

Interesting article about 'analogue warmth' though!

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

Not a lot in it, but B has the edge for me. I get the impression it's
resolving more detail.

OK, Wally - noted, many thanks! I'll reveal all in due course.

Caveat - I listened on my cheapo "Advent" brand headphones. On those, I
thought the clarinet was easiest to tell apart. Mic A sounded rounder or
maybe softer than B. I felt B gave a better impression of there being a
reed. The piano was harder to tell apart - it was more just the odd note
that stood out. A bit like the clart, when I felt there was a difference,
B
gave more of the impression of vibrating strings. I think that translates
into a bit more top end. I struggled to hear any difference between the
mics
with the sax.


OK, thanks for that.



Still got your MR2? Swim's has gone now - she got 60 quid for it!! :-)

Somebody got a serious bargain at that price. :)


No they didn't - it died and was scrapped!

I reckon the cam belt went and bent the valves - it had lost all power and
there was no compression on the three cylinders the garage guy could reach!
Thought about you as I handed two (spare) rear wheels with good tyres om to
a scrap dealer last week!


Yep, still got mine.
Brilliant motors - still feels great every time I get into it.

:-)




If you're looking for musos for the UKRAnian All Stars, I might be
interested in having a bash at something.


Aha!! :-)


Kinda depends on the tune - ie,
whether or not I can improvise something, and on whether I can play a
suitable instrument to a standard that's better than crap.


I thinks the tune depends upon what instruments/performers are available!


(Is 'rubbish'
better than 'crap'?)


Rubbish is good - it's a start!


I used to be decent at guitar until I stopped playing
about three years ago, I'm crap at piano, and I'm an unknown quantity on
MIDI keyboard plus old Hammond sound module (been meaning to set that up
and
plug it into a valve guitar amp to see how it sounds).


OK, so what do you think would be the best to have a go with? We live in an
'endless multitracking age' so the more instruments the better, if you are
multi-facetted!! Iain's the Bandleader (as well as mixing engineer and
producer) - I'm sure he can scrape summat suitable together when he knows
what he's got to work with!

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Keith G" wrote


I reckon the cam belt went and bent the valves



You know what I mean - I'm supposed to be watching a movie....

Cognitive dissonance?
 

Keith G wrote:

I reckon the cam belt went and bent the valves - it had lost all
power and there was no compression on the three cylinders the garage
guy could reach!

Ah well. Plenty of the older ones still around, so their owners will get
bits.


Thought about you as I handed two (spare) rear
wheels with good tyres om to a scrap dealer last week!

They likely wouldn't have fitted. I believe Swim's was a rev1, which had
smaller brakes than mine, and smaller wheels around them. The rev2 had
bigger brakes and wheels, and they then stayed that size through the rest of
the revisions. In any case, mine has 17" aftermarket jobbies and low profile
widies.



OK, so what do you think would be the best to have a go with? We live
in an 'endless multitracking age' so the more instruments the better,
if you are multi-facetted!! Iain's the Bandleader (as well as mixing
engineer and producer) - I'm sure he can scrape summat suitable
together when he knows what he's got to work with!

In terms of competence, guitar is what I should be doing, I guess. I've
never been a jazzy player - haven't got a clue what chord shapes they use,
but I could probably do a passable solo. If the tune's a standard, I could
listen to few versions of it, and get an idea of what sort of solo tends to
get played. As I said, though, I've had a hankering to trying some Hammond
sounds on my keyboard - would have to be something at a fairly easy tempo. I
have no idea about picking tunes to suit sax or clarinet, but I can jam
along with most stuff, so I'm open to suggestions.

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

I reckon the cam belt went and bent the valves - it had lost all
power and there was no compression on the three cylinders the garage
guy could reach!

Ah well. Plenty of the older ones still around, so their owners will get
bits.


It was one of those scrap deals (60 quid) where you get a 'certificate' to
say the car is taken off the road. Swim Bo didn't want to see it drive past
her, she'd had it from brand new - 18 years or more!




Thought about you as I handed two (spare) rear
wheels with good tyres om to a scrap dealer last week!

They likely wouldn't have fitted. I believe Swim's was a rev1, which had
smaller brakes than mine, and smaller wheels around them. The rev2 had
bigger brakes and wheels, and they then stayed that size through the rest
of
the revisions. In any case, mine has 17" aftermarket jobbies and low
profile
widies.


OK. Good.




OK, so what do you think would be the best to have a go with? We live
in an 'endless multitracking age' so the more instruments the better,
if you are multi-facetted!! Iain's the Bandleader (as well as mixing
engineer and producer) - I'm sure he can scrape summat suitable
together when he knows what he's got to work with!

In terms of competence, guitar is what I should be doing, I guess. I've
never been a jazzy player - haven't got a clue what chord shapes they use,
but I could probably do a passable solo.


The way these 'band' pieces go is everyone gets to step forward and solo at
some point and of course that can be tailored to suit the player's ability.



If the tune's a standard, I could
listen to few versions of it, and get an idea of what sort of solo tends
to
get played. As I said, though, I've had a hankering to trying some Hammond
sounds on my keyboard - would have to be something at a fairly easy tempo.


Call me daft but I like a little 'Hammond' - especially in the backing! :-)

I
have no idea about picking tunes to suit sax or clarinet, but I can jam
along with most stuff, so I'm open to suggestions.



Well, it's over to Iain now - he'll see this before we're aboot tomorrow!

We're calling it a day some way into Transformers 2 right now - absolute
******** but so *visual* and eye-catching on a big screen at 1080p!!

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:59:29 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

****! You want me to redecorate the living room as well??

Well, I was getting to that. It DOES sound a bit live. Could you
manage carpets, bookshelves and some soft furnishings? Should break
the reflections up a bit.

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...

Treat yourself to a pair of these too
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em700_stereoset.htm


A colleague of mine has bought and returned several
pairs of T-Bones He said to me drily, "They last about
as long as a tank of diesel" The Neumann will outlast
us all

Iain

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:22:26 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

We're talking about the UKRAinian All Stars here - sinners, beginners,
learners and sundry other low-wage earners, not the bloody Philharmonic!!

I play like crap often enough by mistake, without SETTING OUT to play
like crap :-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

These rough and ready 'test clips' are recorded with two different mics,
one of which only arrived today and cost about *four times* the price of
the other, so is obviously much better; the only question is which is it -
A or B..??

(The mics stay with the same letter throughout and the 'Piano' clips are a
finger walk up and down the keyboard only - due to a badly buzzing
'string' making tunes impossible atm!)

Have fun!

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-ClartA.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-ClartB.wav


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-PianoA.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...son-PianoB.wav


http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...rison-SaxA.wav

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/shown...rison-SaxB.wav


Answers on a postcard, but no fees will be paid, no contract is on
offer....

(As usual, I will reveal all if/when someone has had a go at it! :-)

Hmm- Most interesting. I am more used to doing AB tests
by switching between them, in "strategic" places. That way
the differences are clearly noticeable.

In both the case of the clnt and the alto saxophone,
I would say the Neumann is "A".

Since the tumer was here the other day the 'buzzing string' we have
had on the piano for some while has suddenly taken on new dimensions
and it makes playing a tune hideous, so I just did a 'finger walk'
up and down the keyboard!

Too weird to contemplate. Arnold Schoenberg has never been a
favourite of mine:-)

Iain

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Wally" wrote in message
...

Wally wrote:
If you're looking for musos for the UKRAnian All Stars, I might be
interested in having a bash at something.
Kinda depends on the tune - ie,
whether or not I can improvise something, and on whether I can play a
suitable instrument to a standard that's better than crap.


I thinks the tune depends upon what instruments/performers are available!

We can start with a solo instrument plus accompaniment, and the take
turns to play a chorus. We can also build sections now that we have two
saxophone players.

Hopefully Laurence will join us on slide trombone, but if not, I can find
a valve trombone player, but I shall insist that he posts at least once to
to this NG to make him a fully.fledged UKRAinian

I used to be decent at guitar until I stopped playing
about three years ago, I'm crap at piano, and I'm an unknown quantity on
MIDI keyboard plus old Hammond sound module (been meaning to set that up
and
plug it into a valve guitar amp to see how it sounds).


OK, so what do you think would be the best to have a go with? We live in
an 'endless multitracking age' so the more instruments the better, if you
are multi-facetted!! Iain's the Bandleader (as well as mixing engineer and
producer) - I'm sure he can scrape summat suitable together when he knows
what he's got to work with!

We have to work with what we've got: Clarinet, Alto saxophone, Tenor
saxophone, vibraphone, guitar(s) (one guitar player from Oz!!) plus
a trio backing track, piano drums and bass. The track can be edited to
accomodate as many guitar solos as we have players. I can also supply
written parts with chords if anyone want to play rhythm guitar.

I have a good song in mind, a jazz standard. Maybe this should
be the subject of a new thread.

Iain

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:22:26 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

We're talking about the UKRAinian All Stars here - sinners, beginners,
learners and sundry other low-wage earners, not the bloody Philharmonic!!

I play like crap often enough by mistake, without SETTING OUT to play
like crap :-)

Laurence. That applies to all of us. But you have a huge advantage
in that you were once trained to professional standard.
The rest of us are just doing it for enjoyment.

It's all down to practice.
I have been playing tenor saxophone for only ten months, I
play in a big band where the other players, teachers etc have
been playing for 20/30 years. Some of the arrangements are very
difficult, Ellington, Kenton etc. They can all sight-read far better
than I. But I work on some of the current titles with my teacher
and when at band rehearsal we put up a title I have practiced, I
can play my part as well as anyone.

We are currently putting together a "dance folder". Some of
the evergreens, have pretty tough parts for saxophones, while
the trombones play beautiful chorale-type long notes:-)

Take a look at:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/Image-10.jpg

It took me two weeks of practice every day to be able to
play bars 25-30. Difficult fngering for tenor saxophone.
Probably almost impossible on trombone?

Nobody's setting out to play crap, this first effort:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


Was indisputably the best bit of music *ever* posted here that was played
and recorded only by ukra subscribers, their friends and family in no less
than 3 different countries!!

Indeed:-))
This group has a rather "sedentary" reputation.
It would be good to see half a dozen or so people from this
group take part in the next effort.

Iain

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:31:17 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:


"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:22:26 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

We're talking about the UKRAinian All Stars here - sinners, beginners,
learners and sundry other low-wage earners, not the bloody Philharmonic!!

I play like crap often enough by mistake, without SETTING OUT to play
like crap :-)

Laurence. That applies to all of us. But you have a huge advantage
in that you were once trained to professional standard.
The rest of us are just doing it for enjoyment.

It's all down to practice.
I have been playing tenor saxophone for only ten months, I
play in a big band where the other players, teachers etc have
been playing for 20/30 years. Some of the arrangements are very
difficult, Ellington, Kenton etc. They can all sight-read far better
than I. But I work on some of the current titles with my teacher
and when at band rehearsal we put up a title I have practiced, I
can play my part as well as anyone.

We are currently putting together a "dance folder". Some of
the evergreens, have pretty tough parts for saxophones, while
the trombones play beautiful chorale-type long notes:-)

Take a look at:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/Image-10.jpg

It took me two weeks of practice every day to be able to
play bars 25-30. Difficult fngering for tenor saxophone.
Probably almost impossible on trombone?

Nobody's setting out to play crap, this first effort:

http://www.moirac.adsl24.co.uk/showntell/GeorgiaM.mp3


Was indisputably the best bit of music *ever* posted here that was played
and recorded only by ukra subscribers, their friends and family in no less
than 3 different countries!!

Indeed:-))
This group has a rather "sedentary" reputation.
It would be good to see half a dozen or so people from this
group take part in the next effort.

Iain



This is one of the great things about music - that it comes to you in
stages. You learn to play the tunes long before you learn to play the
instrument. Then a great day comes when a new tune is less of a
challenge, simply because you are master of the instrument itself.

There is another way of learning, I suppose; technical exercises and
scales for months before you ever get to play an actual tune, but what
a joyless way of going about things that has to be.

d

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:56:52 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Treat yourself to a pair of these too
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em700_stereoset.htm


A colleague of mine has bought and returned several
pairs of T-Bones He said to me drily, "They last about
as long as a tank of diesel" The Neumann will outlast
us all

That's interesting. They seem to be the usual Chinese stuff, with a
Thomann label. Sometimes mediocre, sometimes surprisingly
interesting. What's the failure mode?

Funny thing, labels. Remember when Sony used to mean quality?

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:31:17 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/iain.churches/Pics/Image-10.jpg

It took me two weeks of practice every day to be able to
play bars 25-30. Difficult fngering for tenor saxophone.
Probably almost impossible on trombone?

Tricky, but possible for a good player. And there's a frightening
number of good players around :-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:41:02 GMT, (Don Pearce) wrote:

This is one of the great things about music - that it comes to you in
stages. You learn to play the tunes long before you learn to play the
instrument. Then a great day comes when a new tune is less of a
challenge, simply because you are master of the instrument itself.

There is another way of learning, I suppose; technical exercises and
scales for months before you ever get to play an actual tune, but what
a joyless way of going about things that has to be.

It doesn't have to be either/or. In musical "real life" you often
don't see the tune until the day of performance. So you hopefully go
in technically prepared. Other times you hone a solo performance over
days, weeks, even months (though it's quite rare to get THAT much time
between being asked to do it and having to come up with the goods:-)

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Iain Churches" wrote


I thinks the tune depends upon what instruments/performers are available!

We can start with a solo instrument plus accompaniment, and the take
turns to play a chorus. We can also build sections now that we have two
saxophone players.


Blimey! I'll perhaps not say anything for a few days - not until she's had
the damn thing for a fortnight, anyway! :-)



Hopefully Laurence will join us on slide trombone,


Yes, I hope so. I'm certain he can do summat in the background if he's not
back on form, even after only a little bit of practice?


but if not, I can find
a valve trombone player, but I shall insist that he posts at least once to
to this NG to make him a fully.fledged UKRAinian


:-)



We have to work with what we've got: Clarinet, Alto saxophone, Tenor
saxophone, vibraphone, guitar(s) (one guitar player from Oz!!) plus
a trio backing track, piano drums and bass. The track can be edited to
accomodate as many guitar solos as we have players. I can also supply
written parts with chords if anyone want to play rhythm guitar.

I have a good song in mind, a jazz standard. Maybe this should
be the subject of a new thread.


Good idea.

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 00:59:29 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:

****! You want me to redecorate the living room as well??

Well, I was getting to that. It DOES sound a bit live.


Not surprising with floor to ceiling glass on two opposite walls!


Could you
manage carpets, bookshelves and some soft furnishings? Should break
the reflections up a bit.


Reflections...??

Cognitive dissonance?
 

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 08:56:52 +0200, "Iain Churches"
wrote:

Treat yourself to a pair of these too
http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em700_stereoset.htm


A colleague of mine has bought and returned several
pairs of T-Bones He said to me drily, "They last about
as long as a tank of diesel" The Neumann will outlast
us all

That's interesting. They seem to be the usual Chinese stuff, with a
Thomann label. Sometimes mediocre, sometimes surprisingly
interesting. What's the failure mode?

Funny thing, labels. Remember when Sony used to mean quality?


Still does in my book - what makes you say that?