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DIY Headphone DAC



 
 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 11:13 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,850
Default DIY Headphone DAC

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article
, Arny
Krueger
wrote:


The big missing piece in this project is the measured
performance. There's some reason to believe that the
transformer, which is rated at -7 dBU @ 50 might be
pushed to over load in some applications.


I think I said in the report that the response was flat
with -1dB points at about 20Hz, 20kHz, and that the
distortion level was below 0.01 percent for 0dBFS.


0 dBFS at what frequency?

It appears that the tests were done with a 100 ohm resistor, not headphones.

32 ohm headphones are very common as are 16 ohm headphones.


  #12 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 11:14 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
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Posts: 3,850
Default DIY Headphone DAC

"Fed Up Lurker" wrote in
message

Take it easy Jim, It's what Arny does.


And making false accusations is what you do. All talk, no action.


  #13 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 11:17 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Arny Krueger
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Posts: 3,850
Default DIY Headphone DAC

"Eiron" wrote in message

On 27/07/2010 10:36, Fed Up Lurker wrote:

This TDA1541 machine that is itching for you to NONOS it
and


Maybe you could explain what you mean by NONOS for those
of us who haven't kept up with these things.


NOS usually means New Old Stock. Maybe people should read the added "NO" as
"no, don't waste your time with it.

Building new gear out of obsolete parts from a fast-moving technology like
DAC is something that people with way too much time on their hands seem to
want to obsess over.


  #14 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 03:31 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Fed Up Lurker[_3_]
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Posts: 81
Default DIY Headphone DAC


"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Fed Up Lurker" wrote in
message

Take it easy Jim, It's what Arny does.


And making false accusations is what you do. All talk, no action.


I'm just teasing you Arny, same as you teased old JA.
So Arny you're a man of action, thats wonderful!
So you have uploaded an example of your professional
recordings? Thats great, post the link so we all can enjoy.
And hopefully Keef will re-link the 2 clips he linked to in
a post but they didn't actually exist, surely a genuine mistake
by Keef, and I'll be uploading an example of a NONOS'd
Marantz cd player, either this evening or tomorrow afternoon.
Should liven up this group huh....


  #15 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 03:44 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 2,668
Default DIY Headphone DAC

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message

In article , Arny
Krueger wrote:


The big missing piece in this project is the measured performance.
There's some reason to believe that the transformer, which is rated
at -7 dBU @ 50 might be pushed to over load in some applications.


I think I said in the report that the response was flat with -1dB
points at about 20Hz, 20kHz, and that the distortion level was below
0.01 percent for 0dBFS.


0 dBFS at what frequency?


I did a variety of measurements using various frequencies. See below for
some details.

It appears that the tests were done with a 100 ohm resistor, not
headphones.


Actually I used 100 Ohms, 33 Ohms, *and* headphones as loads. Also did
measurements on the headphones at the same time. But decided not to put all
the details onto the webpage as I didn't want to make it seem overpowering
to someone who was considering just trying making something similar who
didn't have much background in electronic engineering. I also did
measurements with 'no load'. i.e. high load resistance of just the test
kit.

On the webpage I deliberately gave a minimum of test results. Just enough
to let people see how the design/test process worked. e.g. so they could
see how to estimate the impedance effects of the transformer, etc.

32 ohm headphones are very common as are 16 ohm headphones.


Yes. IIRC I mention one of the phones I used were about 18 Ohms, but the
three others I tried all came in around 32-35 Ohms.

I did measurements repeatedly at 20Hz, 35Hz, 500Hz, 1k, and 5k. Did that at
0dBFS and at a few lower levels like -3, -6 and -10dBFS. Also used other
frequencies and levels for various checks.

Overall, the measured distortions were of the order of 0.01 percent or
less. However as you would expect from the point you made the distortion
did rise at LF and high level.

For 33 Ohm resistor loads the distortion at 20Hz 0dBFS was about 1 percent.
This fell below 0.5 percent for -6dBFS 20Hz. It also fell rapidly as I
increased the frequency. So was below 0.1 percent once into 50Hz
territory. I don't have all the results listed as I just watched my
analyser at the time as I played with the test signal, etc. But values in
the 0.01 percent or less range became typical even for 0dBFS for
frequencies in the region above 100 Hz. Didn't plot curves as I wasn't
intending to have them on the webpage for the reason I explain above. :-)

Using 100 Ohm loads *increased* the LF saturation distortion effects. And
going 'open circuit' made them *much* higher!

Worth also saying having detailed the above that the LF distortion
measurements tended to be less readable as I was using an FTT with limited
resolution. I find that active nulling tends to give more accurate results
here as it helps avoid the window spreading effects.

I did also do measurements using the headphones as loads, but they gave
inconsistent values for a predictable reason. They also have nonlinearity
and the source doesn't have zero impedance. Hence I was getting extra
nonliniarity due to the headphone impedances not being linear.

I'd be quite happy to recommend people use better transformers. But I found
these worked OK, and the results sound fine to me. In practice I find I
have the volume wound down, so 0dBFS corresponds to a lower level though
the transformers. This all depends on the choice of headphones and if the
user is a head-banger, though. That said, I doubt head-bangers would be
satisfied with being excluded from their desired territory above 100dBA...
8-]

If you are interested and have other transformers to recommend I'd be
interested in seeing measurements using them, etc. I just used the ones
that were easy for inexperienced home DIYs to get. CPC are an easy source
for people in the UK. But one of my aims was that people might promptly
make 'better' versions their own way. Wasn't trying to make a product, just
to encourage people to dip their toes into the water. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #16 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 06:00 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Fed Up Lurker[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 81
Default DIY Headphone DAC


"Eiron" wrote in message
...
On 27/07/2010 10:36, Fed Up Lurker wrote:

This TDA1541 machine that is itching for you to NONOS it and


Maybe you could explain what you mean by NONOS for those of us
who haven't kept up with these things.

--
Eiron.


It's on a "need to know" basis.
But Jim will be doing a full and revealing article on the subject for
HFN+RR,
thats right innit Jim....


  #17 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 06:31 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,668
Default DIY Headphone DAC

In article , Fed Up Lurker
wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
On 27/07/2010 10:36, Fed Up Lurker wrote:

This TDA1541 machine that is itching for you to NONOS it and


Maybe you could explain what you mean by NONOS for those of us who
haven't kept up with these things.

-- Eiron.


It's on a "need to know" basis.


ahem Now, who's teasing? ;-

But Jim will be doing a full and
revealing article on the subject for HFN+RR, thats right innit Jim....


Not really possible to do "full and revealing" when you only get one page!
:-) But it is discussed in a future column, along with a pointer to
finding out more on the web.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

  #18 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 08:41 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Peter Chant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default DIY Headphone DAC

Arny Krueger wrote:


NOS usually means New Old Stock. Maybe people should read the added "NO"
as "no, don't waste your time with it.

Building new gear out of obsolete parts from a fast-moving technology like
DAC is something that people with way too much time on their hands seem to
want to obsess over.


Did a bit of browsing after reading this group. Found one site that
suggests modding DAC boards off ebay - not read a hifi mag for a while but
the website seemed to be making all the "hifi mag" noises - as did ebay.
But the same ebay search seemed to come up with DACs, full units, not just
boards, that looked right to fit the aforementioned boards quite cheeply. I
expect you'd be pushed to buy the bits for the prices they quote.

Suppose it ruins the fun of rolling your own, but if you are into modding it
would be fun.

Pete

--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk
  #19 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 09:17 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Peter Chant
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default DIY Headphone DAC

Jim Lesurf wrote:

This is just to let people know that I've now put up a webpage describing
the design of the simple headphone DAC I've been experimenting with during
the last few weeks. The page is at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/HFN/Headp...C/HeadDAC.html

The aim was to produce something inexpensive and easy to build so that
anyone willing to use a soldering iron and drill some holes in a metal box
could make one if they wished. :-)


Any reason you did not build an emitter follower instead as a buffer? Or
is that just a bit too complex for your aims above?

Just curious?

Pete

--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk
  #20 (permalink)  
Old July 27th 10, 09:34 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
David Looser
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,883
Default DIY Headphone DAC

"Fed Up Lurker" wrote

I'll be uploading an example of a NONOS'd
Marantz cd player, either this evening or tomorrow afternoon.
Should liven up this group huh....


I hadn't realised it was possible yet to upload physical objects like CD
players. Clearly technology has developed faster than I realised :-)

David.


 




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