In article , Iain Churches
wrote:


... but I cannot resist "putting a spanner in thew works" now and again
on anti-vinyl groups such as this one.

Must say I do find that comment weird. So far as I can see, individuals
here make all kinds of comments about 'vinyl'. Describing the *group* as
"anti-vinyl" does seem to me to say more about your thinking than the
group.

Is it "anti vinyl" for someone to say they tend to prefer something else
for reasons they state?

Does an individual writing that make the *group* "anti vinyl"?

If your responses are "yes" then I can only repeat that it seems an odd
view and state of mind to me.

Perhaps you have not noticed how I (and others) have criticised commercial
*CDs* as well for their faults and imperfections As with LP, due to the
witlessness of those making them. The distinction being that with LP the
problems ususally arose at the time of physical pressing or later. With CD
it is the dim bulbs who level compress the music to death before it even
gets onto the physical CD on sale. Does this make me "anti aluminium"? :-)

Geting back to the *topic* of this thread I was happy just to comment on
the Technics DD turntables relative to other turntables. But others
introduced other points. e.g. you added in a comment about my hearing the
clicks and pops on the LPs I used to buy. Was it then "anti vinyl" for me
to comment on that?

As I think I explained, in general my preference for other carriers was due
in part to audibly poorly made LPs rather than 'turntables'. FWIW My
general personal experience is that any decent audio system tends to be
more capable than a lot of the LPs/CDs/broadcasts served up for the public.
Presumably the vendors don't care and assume most buyers don't have decent
equipment or know or care.


I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the surfaces
often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own, EMT948 and
401/SME3012/V15III and these give me very good results indeed. Due to
the huge amount of music not available on CD, I cannot possibly even
consider life without a turntable.

I own and use one LP playing system (as required) but find that I have
plenty to enjoy on CD or from the BBC or from occasional DVDs of concerts.
So I very rarely bother to get a 'new' (to me) LP. So what?

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians. There is a
great deal of interest in British popular music of the 1960s. These
young players scoured the second hand shops looking for music in which
they are interested. It didn't take them long to get hooked on vinyl.

Again, very odd language to say they get "hooked" on "vinyl" rather than
*music*. Curious displacement thinking to have a 'fetish' for the container
rather than the contained. :-)

But I guess it is harmless enjoyment - unless it becomes like being
'hooked' on other materials which end up costing you a lot of money and
lost friends and family. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article ,
"Iain Churches" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote in message
...
In article ,

"When they¹re not selling their guitars to buy turntables, they¹re
selling their turntables to buy guitars * EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline
soldiers in the culture war.


This "culture war" is news to me, can you please expand a little?

I believe this is just a colorful description to dramatize the hipster
daily grind.

Stephen

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote

Your quibbles are logically valid but factually incorrect, except for
the proposition that "being fashionable" doesn't equal "being
fashionable" because of an arbitrarily exclusion.


Vague waffle such as that does not advance your argument one iota. You will
have to explain where the "factual inaccuracies" are and where this
"arbitrarily exclusion" is to be found

I'd look in your own words that you just snipped. Your logical
speculations are trumped by facts. Claiming hipster fashion doesn't
count because it's really a cult is a dodge by definition.

http://www.timeout.com/london/around..._London_essent
ials.html

"When they¹re not selling their guitars to buy turntables, they¹re
selling their turntables to buy guitars * EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline
soldiers in the culture war. Look out for their American Apparel camo at
all the area¹s free gigs, basement aftershows, secret raves and
pose-friendly cafés."


Yet more vague waffle. what is "EaLo¹s hipsters are frontline soldiers in
the culture war" supposed to mean?

The meaning is not important. What is important is that there is a
hipster scene (and hipster fashion) and it includes turntables.

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.

Stephen

"MiNe 109" wrote

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.


And you have failed to understand the point that fashionability within a
tiny group doesn't equal "fashionable". Many things are "fashionable" within
special interest groups, doesn't make any of those things "fashionable" in
the general sense either.

BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".

QED.

David

"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

A whole generation has missed out
on vinyl, which, for many, holds a deep fascination.

Clearly it does for you.

Not really (snip)

That's not the impression I get from reading your posts here ;-)

It's fun to see the man from Detroit
turn apoplectic, and start to rant and scream about
"vinyl bigots", etc etc:-)

Is it? seems pretty childish behaviour to me.

I look after my LP record collection with care, and clean the
surfaces often. I have two high-grade turntables of my own,
EMT948 and 401/SME3012/V15III and these give me
very good results indeed. Due to the huge amount of music
not available on CD, I cannot possibly even consider life
without a turntable.

What about the huge amount of music not available on vinyl?


You seem, to share a parallel interest with a former colleague
of mine, now working as an AD in TV, who is very knowledgeable
on the subject of Fantasia from both the technical and the artistic angle.

I first saw Fantasia at the age of six. It made a huge impression on me at
the time (esp. the Rite of Spring and Night on Bald Mountain sequences) and
I have been mildly obsessed with it ever since.

And from another technology I'm also fascinated by the pre-war Baird
240-line TV system used on alternate weeks at Ally Pally from Sept 1936 to
Feb 1937. For which not only does no hardware survive, but most of the
documentation was destroyed in the Crystal Palace fire of 1936.

Do you know people with a similar interest? Are there discussion
groups for such subjects?

Yes and yes.

It an important part of the British
broadcasting heritage.

I agree, it's a shame that the BBC doesn't. The old TV studios at AP would
be an ideal place for a well-funded museum of TV broadcasting. But neither
the BBC nor any other organisation wants to stump up the funds.

But I accept that I'm unusual in finding this stuff interesting.

Probably not as unusual as you may think. Even in a smallish
city like HKI I know two people who have 16mm projectors
at home, in purpose-built rooms.

LOL! two people in a city hardly counts as more than an insignificant
minority!

I know someone who lives near me who has a 35mm cinema projector installed
in his modest terrace house. The projector is in what was meant to be the
dining room with a port cut through into the living room where the screen
is. This projector is fitted with a replay head for 4-track mag sound, and
he even has a striped 35mm print of a feature film that he can run on it.
Goodness knows how he managed to acquire that, better not to ask ;-).
..

Most people, especially young people IME, couldn't care less about
vintage
audio-video technology. And I am far from convinced that "many" people
are
fascinated by vinyl.

I come into contact with large numbers of young musicians.
There is a great deal of interest in British popular music of
the 1960s. These young players scoured the second hand
shops looking for music in which they are interested. It didn't
take them long to get hooked on vinyl.

That would depend on the sort of music they are interested in. You talk a
lot about jazz, and I guess that's an area where vinyl retains some
significance. In the village in which I live there are two families with
musically talented children, in one household the turntable is stored in a
junk room and, judging by the dust is little used, the other doesn't have a
turntable at all (they recently asked me to transfer a few LPs they owned to
CD-R). But in both cases the major interest is classical music, and five of
the six young people involved are girls, who are rather less likely to
become geeky about vintage replay technology.


It's a sunny but "crisp" morning- -24.5C. I don't think I shall
be taking lunch in the garden. I have lit a roaring log fire -
no gig till this evening:-)


It's a miserable day here today, not that cold (4C), but dull, overcast and
misty.
I'm not having lunch in the garden either, but I'll wait until later to
light the woodburner.

David.

"David Looser" wrote in message
...
"MiNe 109" wrote

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.


And you have failed to understand the point that fashionability within a
tiny group doesn't equal "fashionable". Many things are "fashionable"
within special interest groups, doesn't make any of those things
"fashionable" in the general sense either.


Still trying to lay down the law, David? What do you mean by 'the general
sense' - I am not aware of any 'fashion' that applies to anyone outside the
select group who are interested in the 'fashion' in question.

Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could safely
say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a very
fashionable item - no?

(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)


BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".


Another 'Looser imposed condition' - when he collect that liability?

Who cares if turntables are considered 'fashionable' here or not? FWIW, this
group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience any opposition to
the use of turntables/playing records!

And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than half a
dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

In article ,
"David Looser" wrote:

"MiNe 109" wrote

Your argument was that turntables won't be fashionable. I pointed out a
fashion scene that includes them. QED.


And you have failed to understand the point that fashionability within a
tiny group doesn't equal "fashionable". Many things are "fashionable" within
special interest groups, doesn't make any of those things "fashionable" in
the general sense either.

You are arguing by definition. I don't accept yours.

If you are arguing that turntables are no longer widely used and will
not be in the future, I would agree heartily.

Stephen

BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".

QED.

On 18/02/2011 09:25, Jim Lesurf wrote:
HACK
I own and use one LP playing system (as required) but find that I have
plenty to enjoy on CD or from the BBC or from occasional DVDs of concerts.
So I very rarely bother to get a 'new' (to me) LP. So what?

Yeah, so what! Why do you bother to post this drivel?

"Keith G" wrote in message


Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just
outside of this town and they *all* have turntables and
play records,

Probably due to your evangelization...

so I think you could safely say that at
least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a very
fashionable item - no?

My friends would blanch at the thought of our shared preferences being
merely fashionable.

"Keith G" wrote


Still trying to lay down the law, David?

Stop talking ******** Keith. This is a discussion group, I am no more
"trying to lay down the law" than you, or anyone else who posts an opinion
here.

What do you mean by 'the general sense' - I am not aware of any 'fashion'
that applies to anyone outside the select group who are interested in the
'fashion' in question.

If I said that interest in pre-war TV was "fashionable" would you agree? If
the word "fashionable" is used without qualification it implies considerably
more than the item in question being popular within a narrow interest group.

Consider this: I have five 'hifi friends' in and just outside of this town
and they *all* have turntables and play records, so I think you could
safely say that at least as far as we are concerned the turntable is a
very fashionable item - no?

No.

What is the population of your town? 100,000? so 5 people represents
..005%. Of course there will be many more people in your town who own, and
use, turntables. But there will be significantly more than that again who
own and use CD players and mp3 players. It seems to me to be the height of
folly to try to claim fashionability for a minority interest product simply
because it is popular amongst the people who constitute that minority. At
that rate *everything* is "fashionable" and the word becomes meaningless.

(I suspect your own 'vinyl problems' stem from the fact that you probably
don't know anyone who routinely plays records, ;-)

Or maybe yours is that you do :-)


BTW you haven't proved that even within this tiny group turntables are
actually "fashionable".


Another 'Looser imposed condition' - when he collect that liability?

It's far from a "Looser imposed condition". If you make a statement and are
unable, or unwilling, to support it with evidence then that statement is no
more than your unsupported opinion. That's a fact of life, not an imposition
from me!

Who cares if turntables are considered 'fashionable' here or not?

Your mate Iain clearly does, as he was the one who suggested that turntables
might become "fashionable"

FWIW, this group is the only 'place' on the planet where I experience any
opposition to the use of turntables/playing records!

Then you need to get out more. It's easy, if you only ever mix with
like-minded enthusiasts, to conclude that most people think like you. And
*nobody* has expressed "opposition" to the use of turntables or records. All
that I and others have expressed is the opinion that CDs offer a better
alternative.

And, from what I can see of it, that opposition comes from less than half
a dozen noisy individuals here - one or two of whom can become quite
hysterical with it! ;-)

And from what I see a handful of individuals here can get highly agitated at
the mere suggestion that vinyl is an inferior medium :-)

QEND

LOL

OMG

TFIF

:-)

You are losing it Keith ;-)

David.