"Keith G" wrote in message


You may also be unaware that I use Tannoy, Ruark and B&W
'normal' speakers on a regular basis in my No. 1 cinema
setup....

Apparently, you advcate replacing their drivers with whatever screws into
the same mountings, perchance there should be a failure...

"Keith G" wrote

You either don't remember or don't know that I spent 2 or 3 years
auditioning just about every make of 'reasonably priced speaker' there is
in the UK before I discovered 'fullrange' single driver 'horns'. Including
the 'OK but nothing special' LS3/5a's....


But given that you have expressed a preference for vinyl and SET amps, both
of which are well known for causing distortion, its not surprising that you
would prefer highly coloured speakers.

David.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You may also be unaware that I use Tannoy, Ruark and B&W
'normal' speakers on a regular basis in my No. 1 cinema
setup....

Apparently, you advcate replacing their drivers with whatever screws into
the same mountings, perchance there should be a failure...


In the context of the original post, yes. But your 'whatever' is a wee bit
loaded, innit? Obviously you would research a candidate that appeared to be
*strongly* suitable in the first place.

Let's assume that, for any of a number of reasons, the OP can't find the
exact replacement for his knackered units, what do you suggest?

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You may also be unaware that I use Tannoy, Ruark and B&W
'normal' speakers on a regular basis in my No. 1 cinema
setup....

Apparently, you advcate replacing their drivers with
whatever screws into the same mountings, perchance there
should be a failure...


In the context of the original post, yes. But your
'whatever' is a wee bit loaded, innit? Obviously you
would research a candidate that appeared to be *strongly*
suitable in the first place.

Let's assume that, for any of a number of reasons, the OP
can't find the exact replacement for his knackered units,
what do you suggest?

The best approximation he can find, with the possibility of simply scrapping
the speaker were no adequate substitute to be available. Refitting a
different driver so as to exploit it and truely renew the damaged system
takes a lot of engineering, both theory and lab work.

Keith G wrote:

"No Win No Fee" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:




But will it matter at the end of the day? Just putting new drivers
into (presumably) old 3-way speakers is going to alter things even if
only slightly and it will only take 20 minutes to absorb the changes.



Yes it matters.
There is the Thiele Small parameters of the enclosure, the cross over
network and how many drivers in each enclosure and how they are
configured to seamlessly intergrate etc. Then there is the "load" that
the driver represents to the amplifier. And the sensitivity of each
driver and the enclosure as a whole etc. The wrong mid-range driver
will result in either a mid-range suck out if too insensitive, or an
overall drained and stressed sound if too awkward a load. Conversely
an over sensitive new drive could result in dominant mid-range and a
percieved premature roll off in HF and LF.
Fitting a drive just because it fits the baffle cut-out is not a good
idea.


Yes, yes. yes! Agree with all you say, but if you contact a 'certain
well-known supplier' and just describe the speakers without any brand
names or spec. that supplier will almost certainly be able to recommend
and supply a 'safe bet' driver.


That is impossible. And if such a dealer were to make such a claim
that they could supply a "safe bet" based on a description then that
is a dealer who should be revealed for ridicule. Name him?

This is a relatively easy load and high sensitivity drive that fits
the 80 mm requirement of the subject of thread:
http://www.adamhall.com/en/Faital_PR...FP5FE120A.html

This is an awkward load, low effienciency/low sensitivity drive that
would also fit the baffle cut out:
http://snipurl.com/27r2as

Both of above randomly plucked examples have very different specs
and demands, and cross-over and enclosure requirements.

This is a straightforward 3 way floorstander of medium sensitivity
and an overall nominal 6ohm load:
http://www.ultraaudio.com/features/p...01_spendor.jpg
The midrange drive is an 80mm as subject of thread.
If the mid-range drivers were to be replaced with either of the two
very different examples above, the results would be serious mismatch
and with the awkward load drive - possible hardware disaster!

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-speaker-sensitivity.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker
http://www.speakerimpedance.co.uk/
http://www.prestonelectronics.com/audio/Impedance.htm


Just like I did.


If that is true and you replaced drives based on a "description"
then at the very least you have unbalanced, non-intergrated
and disappointing sounding speakers.

On 07/04/2011 14:34, No Win No Fee wrote:
Keith G wrote:

"No Win No Fee" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:




But will it matter at the end of the day? Just putting new drivers
into (presumably) old 3-way speakers is going to alter things even
if only slightly and it will only take 20 minutes to absorb the
changes.



Yes it matters.
There is the Thiele Small parameters of the enclosure, the cross over
network and how many drivers in each enclosure and how they are
configured to seamlessly intergrate etc. Then there is the "load" that
the driver represents to the amplifier. And the sensitivity of each
driver and the enclosure as a whole etc. The wrong mid-range driver
will result in either a mid-range suck out if too insensitive, or an
overall drained and stressed sound if too awkward a load. Conversely
an over sensitive new drive could result in dominant mid-range and a
percieved premature roll off in HF and LF.
Fitting a drive just because it fits the baffle cut-out is not a good
idea.


Yes, yes. yes! Agree with all you say, but if you contact a 'certain
well-known supplier' and just describe the speakers without any brand
names or spec. that supplier will almost certainly be able to
recommend and supply a 'safe bet' driver.


That is impossible. And if such a dealer were to make such a claim
that they could supply a "safe bet" based on a description then that
is a dealer who should be revealed for ridicule. Name him?

This is a relatively easy load and high sensitivity drive that fits
the 80 mm requirement of the subject of thread:
http://www.adamhall.com/en/Faital_PR...FP5FE120A.html


This is an awkward load, low effienciency/low sensitivity drive that
would also fit the baffle cut out:
http://snipurl.com/27r2as

Both of above randomly plucked examples have very different specs
and demands, and cross-over and enclosure requirements.

This is a straightforward 3 way floorstander of medium sensitivity
and an overall nominal 6ohm load:
http://www.ultraaudio.com/features/p...01_spendor.jpg
The midrange drive is an 80mm as subject of thread.
If the mid-range drivers were to be replaced with either of the two
very different examples above, the results would be serious mismatch
and with the awkward load drive - possible hardware disaster!

You can fit the high sensitivity driver mentioned above, measure the
response,
and attenuate it with 2 resistors (with the BBC dip if you like :-) ).
As any multi-way speaker crosses over well above the fundamental resonance
of the midrange unit, it's really only the impedance and sensitivity
that matters.

--
Eiron.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Keith G" wrote in message


You may also be unaware that I use Tannoy, Ruark and B&W
'normal' speakers on a regular basis in my No. 1 cinema
setup....

Apparently, you advcate replacing their drivers with
whatever screws into the same mountings, perchance there
should be a failure...


In the context of the original post, yes. But your
'whatever' is a wee bit loaded, innit? Obviously you
would research a candidate that appeared to be *strongly*
suitable in the first place.

Let's assume that, for any of a number of reasons, the OP
can't find the exact replacement for his knackered units,
what do you suggest?

The best approximation he can find, with the possibility of simply
scrapping the speaker were no adequate substitute to be available.


Exactly. Just what I recommended in the first place.


Refitting a
different driver so as to exploit it and truely renew the damaged system
takes a lot of engineering, both theory and lab work.


And everybody's got the time, inclination, wherewithal, capability, tools
and facilities to do that, haven't they? - 'specially on a pair of probably
less than brand new *three way* speakers!

"No Win No Fee" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"No Win No Fee" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:




But will it matter at the end of the day? Just putting new drivers into
(presumably) old 3-way speakers is going to alter things even if only
slightly and it will only take 20 minutes to absorb the changes.



Yes it matters.
There is the Thiele Small parameters of the enclosure, the cross over
network and how many drivers in each enclosure and how they are
configured to seamlessly intergrate etc. Then there is the "load" that
the driver represents to the amplifier. And the sensitivity of each
driver and the enclosure as a whole etc. The wrong mid-range driver
will result in either a mid-range suck out if too insensitive, or an
overall drained and stressed sound if too awkward a load. Conversely
an over sensitive new drive could result in dominant mid-range and a
percieved premature roll off in HF and LF.
Fitting a drive just because it fits the baffle cut-out is not a good
idea.


Yes, yes. yes! Agree with all you say, but if you contact a 'certain
well-known supplier' and just describe the speakers without any brand
names or spec. that supplier will almost certainly be able to recommend
and supply a 'safe bet' driver.


That is impossible. And if such a dealer were to make such a claim
that they could supply a "safe bet" based on a description then that
is a dealer who should be revealed for ridicule. Name him?


No way. Not in my interests to get involved. All I would say is that the
same supplier was happy to recommend alternative 'fullrange drivers' for a
horn cabinet I had built *without having heard any of them* by his own
admission. 'I should think they would be alright' was the phrase - I thought
so too and he was right, they were OK!




snip 'hit and miss'


If that is true


'Course it's ****ing true if I post it here - I don't need to post crap to
*impress* anyone, least of all the few posters remaining here!!


and you replaced drives based on a "description"
then at the very least you have unbalanced, non-intergrated
and disappointing sounding speakers.


No, in my case, I actually replaced drivers with drivers I had from another
pair of duff speakers and made 'one good pair from two bad ones. The donor
speakers was a Merak 'no name' standmounter; the recipient speaker was a
Ruark Sabre. They sounded fine and I gave them away to someone who was happy
to have them.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
On 07/04/2011 14:34, No Win No Fee wrote:
Keith G wrote:

"No Win No Fee" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:




But will it matter at the end of the day? Just putting new drivers
into (presumably) old 3-way speakers is going to alter things even if
only slightly and it will only take 20 minutes to absorb the changes.



Yes it matters.
There is the Thiele Small parameters of the enclosure, the cross over
network and how many drivers in each enclosure and how they are
configured to seamlessly intergrate etc. Then there is the "load" that
the driver represents to the amplifier. And the sensitivity of each
driver and the enclosure as a whole etc. The wrong mid-range driver
will result in either a mid-range suck out if too insensitive, or an
overall drained and stressed sound if too awkward a load. Conversely
an over sensitive new drive could result in dominant mid-range and a
percieved premature roll off in HF and LF.
Fitting a drive just because it fits the baffle cut-out is not a good
idea.


Yes, yes. yes! Agree with all you say, but if you contact a 'certain
well-known supplier' and just describe the speakers without any brand
names or spec. that supplier will almost certainly be able to recommend
and supply a 'safe bet' driver.


That is impossible. And if such a dealer were to make such a claim
that they could supply a "safe bet" based on a description then that
is a dealer who should be revealed for ridicule. Name him?

This is a relatively easy load and high sensitivity drive that fits
the 80 mm requirement of the subject of thread:
http://www.adamhall.com/en/Faital_PR...FP5FE120A.html
This is an awkward load, low effienciency/low sensitivity drive that
would also fit the baffle cut out:
http://snipurl.com/27r2as

Both of above randomly plucked examples have very different specs
and demands, and cross-over and enclosure requirements.

This is a straightforward 3 way floorstander of medium sensitivity
and an overall nominal 6ohm load:
http://www.ultraaudio.com/features/p...01_spendor.jpg
The midrange drive is an 80mm as subject of thread.
If the mid-range drivers were to be replaced with either of the two
very different examples above, the results would be serious mismatch
and with the awkward load drive - possible hardware disaster!

You can fit the high sensitivity driver mentioned above, measure the
response,
and attenuate it with 2 resistors (with the BBC dip if you like :-) ).
As any multi-way speaker crosses over well above the fundamental resonance
of the midrange unit, it's really only the impedance and sensitivity that
matters.


Yes, notice the OP claimed the mid-range units needing replaced was an
unlikely (I would have thought) 16 Ohm!

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
That is impossible. And if such a dealer were to make such a claim
that they could supply a "safe bet" based on a description then that
is a dealer who should be revealed for ridicule. Name him?


No way. Not in my interests to get involved. All I would say is that the
same supplier was happy to recommend alternative 'fullrange drivers'
for a horn cabinet I had built *without having heard any of them* by
his own admission.

A full range driver doesn't have to interface with a crossover.

'I should think they would be alright' was the
phrase - I thought so too and he was right, they were OK!

So *you* say.

--
*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.