On 05/14/2011 05:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"Tim Wescott"

"If the click seems to come from right inside your head - game over".

What more do you need? Phil's given you a test to see if the phasing is
correct, can you not figure it out, or what to do if the click seems to
come from your right or your left?


** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on both
sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

The OP demonstrates his a monumental ignorance of headphones, hi-fi sound,
usenet etiquette and common sense.

Only tangentially related, and mostly useless:

Amateur radio folks like building direct conversion receivers (i.e., mix
down to baseband). They're simple, hence little, and they work pretty
well. Their biggest problem is that they have no audio image rejection
at all -- listening with a 7040kHz oscillator, you'll hear a signal at
7040.5 just the same as one at 7039.5.

You can get around this by making a so-called "phasing" receiver
(basically an image-reject downconverter, but ham radio has its own
terminology), but then you're back to something complex.

If you build an I/Q downconverter, and amplify each channel to a
headphone channel, then apparently you get a spatial perception of the
tones -- upper side tones sound like they're coming from a different
point in space than lower side tones, and (presumably due to the phase
shift in the amplifiers, I don't know) high and low tones do as well.
It's claimed that this makes it easier to use for morse code reception.

I've always thought that was interesting, but haven't tried it.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" was written for you.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html

On Sun, 15 May 2011 10:31:35 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

** If both ear phones work but are wired out of phase, the AA cell click
test produces a sound that seems to be originating outside the head on both
sides. Mono speech or music sounds much the same.

The effect is far MORE pronounced than with typical stereo speakers in a
room.

Puking two speakers with front panels against each other is a quite
easy way to check polarity. If the polarity is correct, you will hear
some low frequency sounds emitted from the combination. If the
polarity is wrong, you will hear only mid- and high pitch sounds,
since the low frequency air is moving between the cones of the
speakers.

With headphones, you either get "in head" or unrealistic sound
depending on the phasing of headphones.

Sennheiser did the wiring correctly by keeping all four wires separate
and connected to a 4 pin DIN plug and by adding a 4 pin DIN to 6.35 mm
plug adaptor.

As a kid, I was really ****ed of by the convention of using common
returns in headphones. I was testing frequency diversity reception of
the same broadcast programs on two different shortwave bands with two
receivers. Unfortunately, the other receiver was of AC/DC type with
the full 220 Vac in the chassis. Thus I had to rewire the phones so
that one side could (potentially) siting on 220 Vac, and the other
side sitting close to ground potential.

After this alteration, I had no problems with this arrangement.

No problems, no problems, no problems :-)

I bet you are in teaching... grin

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...

"Patrick"

I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a new
plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead black
&
yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires in each
lead.)


** Stick the damn phones on your fat head and connect pairs of wires to a
AA battery until you hear a click.

Now you have your two pairs of wires.

Wire them to a plug any way around you like and connect the same AA to the
common and both positives at the same time.

If the click seems to comes from right inside your head - game over.

If you need more explanation - you do not deserve it.



..... Phil

In article ,
Patrick wrote:
I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach a
new plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead
black & yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two wires
in each lead.)

Black and blue are the commons. Not that it would make any difference if
you commoned red and yellow.

You can check for sure by unplugging the leads from each actual earpiece
(red and blue plugs), but be careful to pull on the actual plug only. The
pins are of slightly different sizes.

Hope you have a source of the muffs for these - they crumble to dust quite
quickly.

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13:07 14 May 2011, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Patrick wrote:
I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach
a new plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead
black & yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two
wires in each lead.)

Black and blue are the commons. Not that it would make any difference
if you commoned red and yellow.

You can check for sure by unplugging the leads from each actual
earpiece (red and blue plugs), but be careful to pull on the actual
plug only. The pins are of slightly different sizes.

Hope you have a source of the muffs for these - they crumble to dust
quite quickly.

You must know the headphones well because I had long forgotten the leads
plugged into the earpieces. I didn't realize the mini plugs were keyed to
go in only one way around. With that info I could have continuity tested
the colored leads to each of the larger pins on the plugs but you saved me
doing that becauase you have given me the color coding too. Thank you.

You're right about the muffs crumbling. I threw them out. First I'll see
what the cans sound like now and then decide if it's worth getting new
muffs.

It's been instructive to see how many people misunderstood what the
original question was trying to solve and they gave obviously useless, if
not misleading, advice. It's never been the same since Eternal September.

"Patrick is a Psycho ASSHOLE "

It's been instructive to see how many people misunderstood what the
original question was trying to solve and they gave obviously useless, if
not misleading, advice. It's never been the same since Eternal September.


** Listen here - pal.

You do not need any headphones worn over your ears - YOU need a ****ing
bullet between the ears.

Same goes for the retarded bitch that bore you and the donkey that knocked
her up.

Never come back or I will really tear you apart.



..... Phil

On Sat, 14 May 2011 23:22:51 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"Patrick is a Psycho ASSHOLE "

It's been instructive to see how many people misunderstood what the
original question was trying to solve and they gave obviously useless,
if not misleading, advice. It's never been the same since Eternal
September.


** Listen here - pal.

You do not need any headphones worn over your ears - YOU need a ****ing
bullet between the ears.

Same goes for the retarded bitch that bore you and the donkey that
knocked her up.

Never come back or I will really tear you apart.



.... Phil

This type of threat should be forwarded to http://www.individual.net/



with the entire header field including message ID.

There is no excuse for this type of venomous reply and most all
responsible news providers will terminate the responsible account
without question.



--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

"Meat Plow" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 14 May 2011 23:22:51 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

"Patrick is a Psycho ASSHOLE "

It's been instructive to see how many people misunderstood what the
original question was trying to solve and they gave obviously useless,
if not misleading, advice. It's never been the same since Eternal
September.


** Listen here - pal.

You do not need any headphones worn over your ears - YOU need a ****ing
bullet between the ears.

Same goes for the retarded bitch that bore you and the donkey that
knocked her up.

Never come back or I will really tear you apart.



.... Phil

This type of threat should be forwarded to http://www.individual.net/



with the entire header field including message ID.




There is no excuse for this type of venomous reply.....

Au Contraire, Phil is the excuse for this type of venomous reply.
Mikek
PS.
Patrick,
We do get some rather interesting diatribe from Phil, rarely with any good
reason.
Don't take it personal, he's not nice to anybody.
Phil has some issues he deals with, but when he answers an electronics or
audio
question he's most likely right.

"Meat Plow"


** This trolling asshole is a narcissistic psychopath.

He knows nothing and understands even less.

I want the lunatic jerk kicked right off usenet.

Who will help me ?




..... Phil

"Patrick" wrote in message
...
On 13:07 14 May 2011, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Patrick wrote:
I have some vinatge headphones (Sennheiser HD424) and want to attach
a new plug.

Which color wires are the positive ones?

The colors in one of the leads are red & blue and in the other lead
black & yellow. (No wire is used as screening - there's just two
wires in each lead.)

Black and blue are the commons. Not that it would make any difference
if you commoned red and yellow.

You can check for sure by unplugging the leads from each actual
earpiece (red and blue plugs), but be careful to pull on the actual
plug only. The pins are of slightly different sizes.

Hope you have a source of the muffs for these - they crumble to dust
quite quickly.

You must know the headphones well because I had long forgotten the leads
plugged into the earpieces. I didn't realize the mini plugs were keyed to
go in only one way around. With that info I could have continuity tested
the colored leads to each of the larger pins on the plugs but you saved me
doing that becauase you have given me the color coding too. Thank you.

You're right about the muffs crumbling. I threw them out. First I'll see
what the cans sound like now and then decide if it's worth getting new
muffs.

It's been instructive to see how many people misunderstood what the
original question was trying to solve and they gave obviously useless, if
not misleading, advice. It's never been the same since Eternal September.

Actually that's untrue, nobody misunderstood the question or gave useless or
misleading advice. And Phil is quite right, the effect of having the
headphones out of phase with each other is not at all subtle, it is at least
as obvious as it would be with speakers. Just because there is no phase
cancellation in the air doesn't mean that the brain is not immediately aware
of the phase difference heard in the two ears.

David.