Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

Secondly, I wonder what kinds of music people think are - for them - the
most revealing choice to appreciate the sound via their audio setup. I'm
curious to know if this relates to people choosing audio equipment
(particularly speakers) with a specific type of input in mind, so
'optimise' for that at the risk of other source material not being so well
reproduced. e.g. I tend to notice a distinct difference in sound balance
between, say, Proms and old EMI classical recordings. So a system that
works well with one may not flatter the other.

Finally, I am wondering again about people being able to easily get 'new'
music of various kinds, and the ways in which a 'brave new world' of the
net may actually make this less convenient in some ways despite being
presented as being easier. e.g. I saw a review of a set of discs in
Stereophile magazine and then discovered when I asked a dealer that it was
a "limited edition only available directly from the label". So far as I can
see, the magazine doesn't tell you.

This seems to be a trend for specialised discs of the kind audio mags
review and means you end up having to move towards almost "buying every
disc is an adventure of going to another website and giving someone else
you don't know your card info". Preceeded by "hunt the site". Am I the only
person who thinks life would be simpler if any disc reviewed could be
bought openly via any dealer? Thus making some price competition possible,
as well as simplifying the process for the purchaser.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac
I gather it's still experimental, but seems to have been going for a couple
of years.

I recently heard one of their own recordings of a Schubert Winterreise
performance by a couple of young Czechs that sounded thrillingly life-like
on my Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeakers.



I'm using Foobar2000 on Windows to twiddle the bits, but I imagine mplayer
could be tweaked to play it in Linux.



A secondary advantage for me is that if I listen to classical music from a
source that broadcasts in a language I don't understand, I'm insulated from
the constant mediation of experience that Radio Three now indulges in. I don't
feel my enjoyment of a piece of music is enhanced by being jollied along by
the announcer. OK, I'm a Grumpy Old Man.



Justin

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac
I gather it's still experimental, but seems to have been going for a couple
of years.
I recently heard one of their own recordings of a Schubert Winterreise
performance by a couple of young Czechs that sounded amusingly life-like
on my Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeakers.

I'm using Foobar2000 on Windows to twiddle the bits, but I imagine mplayer
could be tweaked to play it in Linux.

A secondary advantage for me is that if I listen to classical music from a
source that broadcasts in a language I don't understand, I'm insulated from
the constant mediation of experience that Radio Three now indulges in. I
don't
feel my enjoyment of a piece of music is enhanced by being jollied along by
the announcer. OK, I'm a Grumpy Old Man.



Justin

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via
the 320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than
any traditional broadcasting route I've used.

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?

No. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll give it a try

http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac I gather it's still
experimental, but seems to have been going for a couple of years.

I recently heard one of their own recordings of a Schubert Winterreise
performance by a couple of young Czechs that sounded thrillingly
life-like on my Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeakers.



I'm using Foobar2000 on Windows to twiddle the bits, but I imagine
mplayer could be tweaked to play it in Linux.


Just tried with interesting results. My copy of audiacious failed to
play the stream. (It plays local flac OK.) I may have made an error,
so I'll try again sometime.

Happily, ffplay plays the stream with no problems if I just use

ffplay http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac

in a terminal. Results in a 48k sample rate, so if that is the true
source rate (i.e. not upconverted somewhere from 44.1k) then it may
well be technically better than Radio 3. (A confusing factor here
is that the BBC tend to resample at the drop of a hat.)

Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets
a stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both
stream types are available, not that the stream codec changes without
the name extention altering.


A secondary advantage for me is that if I listen to classical music from
a source that broadcasts in a language I don't understand, I'm
insulated from the constant mediation of experience that Radio Three
now indulges in. I don't feel my enjoyment of a piece of music is
enhanced by being jollied along by the announcer. OK, I'm a Grumpy Old
Man.

You are not entirely alone. :-)


Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Justin Sellors
scribeth thus

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac


This works fine in the http/s stream of VLC

Just copy 'n paste..:)



Justin




--
Tony Sayer

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via
the 320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than
any traditional broadcasting route I've used.

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?

snip
Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets
a stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both
stream types are available, not that the stream codec changes without
the name extention altering.

Apparently it's a FLAC stream in an OGG container - this probably means more
to you than me!
Playing back with Foobar2000, the bottom left of the interface panel shows
"FLAC (a variable bit rate around 600kbps) 48000Hz stereo".

This is quite interesting -
http://www.cesnet.cz/doc/techzpravy/...c-encoding.pdf

Justin

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

snip
Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets a
stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both stream
types are available, not that the stream codec changes without the
name extention altering.

Apparently it's a FLAC stream in an OGG container - this probably means
more to you than me!

Ah, yes. Sorry, the penny has now dropped! In effect Ogg is the transport
stream format/layer and that delivers the data encoded in the flac codec.
I'd been muddling up transport with codec.


Playing back with Foobar2000, the bottom left of
the interface panel shows "FLAC (a variable bit rate around 600kbps)
48000Hz stereo".

I just did a quick test and got a similar result averaged over about 10
mins. Averaged it came in a at just under 600kbps, but as you'd expect
it varied a lot with the music. So - although it averaged at just under
double the rate for the R3 HD streams - at times it peaked up to more
like three times the R3 HD rate.

This is quite interesting -
http://www.cesnet.cz/doc/techzpravy/...c-encoding.pdf

Thanks, yes. Looking at that I also found a couple of other English
docs on the work linked to the techzpravy page.


Interesting to see that they used Linux and open software. Goes nicely
with flac, etc. Quite a contrast to the BBC's closed Flash-controlled
approach.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

The problem is, first find yourself a shop that can spare the time to talk
to a customer, then find one which can bother to take the time to look at
catalogues and order things it does not have in stock, which is usually the
play it safe current stuff and a large heap of oldies compilations of
dubious quality.
The reason why you find these discs on web sites is its a niche market, or
perceived as such by the cash strapped high street stores.
Web sites do not have huge premises and staff so can and do obtain things
you want. its quite sad, but I suspect its economics.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

Secondly, I wonder what kinds of music people think are - for them - the
most revealing choice to appreciate the sound via their audio setup. I'm
curious to know if this relates to people choosing audio equipment
(particularly speakers) with a specific type of input in mind, so
'optimise' for that at the risk of other source material not being so well
reproduced. e.g. I tend to notice a distinct difference in sound balance
between, say, Proms and old EMI classical recordings. So a system that
works well with one may not flatter the other.

Finally, I am wondering again about people being able to easily get 'new'
music of various kinds, and the ways in which a 'brave new world' of the
net may actually make this less convenient in some ways despite being
presented as being easier. e.g. I saw a review of a set of discs in
Stereophile magazine and then discovered when I asked a dealer that it was
a "limited edition only available directly from the label". So far as I
can
see, the magazine doesn't tell you.

This seems to be a trend for specialised discs of the kind audio mags
review and means you end up having to move towards almost "buying every
disc is an adventure of going to another website and giving someone else
you don't know your card info". Preceeded by "hunt the site". Am I the
only
person who thinks life would be simpler if any disc reviewed could be
bought openly via any dealer? Thus making some price competition possible,
as well as simplifying the process for the purchaser.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
The problem is, first find yourself a shop that can spare the time to
talk to a customer, then find one which can bother to take the time to
look at catalogues and order things it does not have in stock, which is
usually the play it safe current stuff and a large heap of oldies
compilations of dubious quality.

Which should raise other questions and not simply be taken as a "show
stopper" that is universally unavoidable.

I *have* found one or two dealers who *will* discuss what is available and
compile/supply lists, etc. You can find some others listed in the back of
some of the classical music mags, for example.

What I find curious is why so few people seem to have an interest in this.
I can appreciate that 'current pop' fans will simply use radio (streams)
and downloads and have a network of 'mates' to tell them what is good. But
that doesn't happen so much for classical, jazz, etc.


The reason why you find these discs on web sites is its a niche market,
or perceived as such by the cash strapped high street stores.

That explains the unimaginative thinking of "cash strapped high street
stores" on the basis that their managers have no clue or flair. The
surprise to me is as above - that almost none seem to have any thought of
creating alternatives that would attract by being a useful service. If you
want to stay in biz you need a 'selling point' that will draw customers to
you rather than the competition. Yet the almost universal reaction is that
this just means "in stock, quick delivery, cheap". What economists call the
"Race to the bottom" approach where the shoddy drives out the good.

It also conflates having a website with losing any ability to engage in
personal interactions with 'customers' and provide any service beyond "This
is what we have and we charge this much. Take it or sod off."[1] It is
quite possible to have a 'website' and also respond helpfully to *people*
and deal with them in they way they individually choose.

So maybe this is another example of the dumb 'management' that inflcts
itself on so much 'business' in the UK and elsewhere? No imagination or
thought about how to carve out a niche on the basis of providing what some
might prefer other than "the norm".

Can't easily requote any of my original message as you put it into your
sig.

[1] Mind you, that has a pedigree in audio. PJW more than once told a
prospective customer to "go forth" when they objected to some aspect of the
Quad kit like the colour scheme. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:58:50 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Justin Sellors
scribeth thus
snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac


This works fine in the http/s stream of VLC

Just copy 'n paste..:)

VLC under Linux (Ubuntu) works for me. Thanks, Justin and Tony!

I also tried using a Squeezebox Touch (also Linux based). This did not
work - repeatedly displaying "Connecting.." "Buffering...".