J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

It also - one of the major disadvantages of the common forms of the
BS1363 one, and for some reason rarely mentioned in discussions like
these - doesn't naturally settle, when unplugged, into a form that's
hazardous to bare feet

When smuggling a phone into a prison it is essential to include the
charger, and given the commonly used hidey-hole the three prongs can
cause great discomfort.

Bill

On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2012, at 18:57:44h +0000, J P Gilliver wrote:

I was quite impressed the first time I saw what I think of as the
"Dutch" design: a bit like the Schuko, but the earth is actually a
socket in the plug, and a pin in the socket! Thus if you try to plug in
a plug that doesn't have the socket, it won't go in!

As far as I am aware that design was not created in the Netherlands but
is in fact the design of the French and is "NF" (la norme francaise)

http://www.marque-nf.COM/

It is the equivalent of BSI kitemark branding.

This design of round three pin plug was adopted by France of course,
and also Belgium and the Netherlands.

Thus round pin plugs on equipment sold in Europe have both the
earth pin socket on the plug and the side earth pin springs to
enable them to be used in France, Benelux, and Germany and other
states.

And to be different being an "insular" nation, the Swiss have
something different completely.

J G Miller wrote:
On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2012, at 18:57:44h +0000, J P Gilliver wrote:

I was quite impressed the first time I saw what I think of as the
"Dutch" design: a bit like the Schuko, but the earth is actually a
socket in the plug, and a pin in the socket! Thus if you try to plug in
a plug that doesn't have the socket, it won't go in!

As far as I am aware that design was not created in the Netherlands but
is in fact the design of the French and is "NF" (la norme francaise)

http://www.marque-nf.COM/

It is the equivalent of BSI kitemark branding.

This design of round three pin plug was adopted by France of course,
and also Belgium and the Netherlands.

Thus round pin plugs on equipment sold in Europe have both the
earth pin socket on the plug and the side earth pin springs to
enable them to be used in France, Benelux, and Germany and other
states.

And to be different being an "insular" nation, the Swiss have
something different completely.

So do the Italians. At least the Swiss one is polarised, the Italian
plug will fit in the socket either way round, so you never really know
which wire is live.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 20:09:01 +0000 (UTC), J G Miller
wrote:

On Tuesday, January 3rd, 2012, at 18:57:44h +0000, J P Gilliver wrote:

I was quite impressed the first time I saw what I think of as the
"Dutch" design: a bit like the Schuko, but the earth is actually a
socket in the plug, and a pin in the socket! Thus if you try to plug in
a plug that doesn't have the socket, it won't go in!

But no fuse. I like the idea of putting the fuse in the plug so if
one appliance fails you don't 'fuse' the whole circuit (though with
RCDs I'm not sure that still applies).

As far as I am aware that design was not created in the Netherlands but
is in fact the design of the French and is "NF" (la norme francaise)

http://www.marque-nf.COM/

It is the equivalent of BSI kitemark branding.

This design of round three pin plug was adopted by France of course,
and also Belgium and the Netherlands.

Thus round pin plugs on equipment sold in Europe have both the
earth pin socket on the plug and the side earth pin springs to
enable them to be used in France, Benelux, and Germany and other
states.

And to be different being an "insular" nation, the Swiss have
something different completely.

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
On 03/01/2012 11:34, Andy Burns wrote:
John Williamson wrote:

Eiron wrote:

And the UK plugs are rather large. That would be a valid criticism.
It spoils the lines of a laptop bag....

http://www.minkyu.co.uk/Site/Product...ug_System.html


Problem solved. HTH

I doubt that design will ever fly ...

I see the thinplug.com is now in the shops, actually, I wish it wasn't
retractable ...

http://www.pcworld.co.uk/gbuk/retrak...83932-pdt.html

That looks good. The only moving part is the plastic earth plug so for
non earthed equipment it will be perfect. And when the plastic pin breaks
you can just use a screwdriver to open the shutters. :-)

If it breaks off inside the socket you will just have to use the same socket
all the time.

--
Max Demian

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message
...
Jerry wrote:
Hmm, surely the 1970s were a tad late for different voltages
(certainly for London), the national grid had been started long
before WW2 and was complete not long after, are you are not
thinking of the different designs of electrical circuits and
sockets in use or perhaps a different time period?

That was it. It was all 240v 50Hz, but the sockets were still the old
ones.

By the time I first got there in 1983, I only saw the ones that are now
in use, but anything electrical was sold without a plug.

That was so Curry's could charge you an extra £1 for the plug. Or drag the
equipment round to Woolworth's and get one for 50p.

--
Max Demian

On Tue, 3 Jan 2012 00:53:58 +0000 (UTC),
(Richard Tobin) wrote:

If you were a serious audiophile, you would not allow mains
electricity within a mile of your listening room. You would run your
amplifier on lead-acid batteries and your turntable would be a uranium
flywheel.

Osmium would be a better choice for a turntable flywheel.


--

In message , John Williamson
writes:
[]
So do the Italians. At least the Swiss one is polarised, the Italian
plug will fit in the socket either way round, so you never really know
which wire is live.

That's another thing: I assume anything is until told otherwise. Most
(all I think) equipment that came with Schuko plugs had two-pole mains
switches; the penny-pinching of only a single pole always seemed
dangerous to me.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than going to a garage
makes you a car." - Laurence J. Peter

In message , Geoffrey S.
Mendelson writes:
Eiron wrote:

Can I just mention another example of European Union lunacy?
Voltage is standardized at 230v +- a fudge factor so that the UK
can keep to 240v and the rest of Europe can keep 220v with no plans
for any country to adopt 230v. Now that is dumb!

No, it makes perfect sense. A long time ago England was 240 volts and
continental Europe was 220 volts, both 50Hz. I don't know when this
was standrdized up until WWII France used 120 volt 60Hz AC.

(Are you sure? I thought their TV standards - even the early ones - were
50Hz-related, which would not be a good idea if they really had 60Hz
mains.)

The UK used several systems, and a friend of mine who traveled to London
in the 1970's found that there were four different electrical systems in use
in various parts of the city. By that time they had been standardized to
240 volts 50Hz, but the older plugs and lightbulbs (different ones for
different systems) remained.

Your friend sounds confused. The 240/50 was standardised a long time
before 1970, and the various plugs and bulbs had been running on 240/50
for some decades by then.

There _had_ been assorted sized plugs with three (round) pins, but the
different sizes were purely for current (2A - rare, mainly in shop
windows - for lighting, and 5, 10, and 15A for other appliances), they
all ran on 240/50.

As for bulbs, the four main types - large and small bayonet, and large
and small Edison screw - had all been on 240/50 since well before 1970.
Large bayonet was almost universal anyway; large Edison screw being the
norm in most of western Europe. The bayonet fitting - especially with
Bakelite and even most later thermosetting plastics - tends to become
brittle and bits break off with the continuous heat produced by a
lightbulb; nevertheless, it is still the overwhelmingly commonest
fitting.

Appliances were sold without plugs well into the 1990s.

Still, you had to buy an appliance for 220 volts or 240 volts. Devices used
in both places had a switch on the back.

Or a tapping you moved (on a transformer, or dropper resistor, though
those were declining).

The new EU standard of 230 volts is not one of exactly 230 volts, like the
old 220 or 240 ones were, it's a requirment that an electrical device sold in
the EU can operate without adjustment from 220-240 volts (more like 210-250)

There were plans of slowly shifting everyone in the EU to 230 volts so there
could be a shared electical grid, but with the economic problems currently
hapening, it would be too much to predict the lights will stay on at all.
:-)

Geoff.

Indeed. Britain is somewhat different there anyway - the trans-channel
interconnectors are actually at DC (and I believe longer cables, such as
those to Scandinavia if there are any, are too); there are rectification
plants, I think one being in or near Hawkinge. (Not sure how they
convert it back to AC.) [I've also been told that, despite the public
being told it is bidirectional because peak demand occurs at different
times as we take our main meals at different times, in practice it has
never operated in the supply-power-from-Britain-to-France direction,
other than for test purposes. Whether this is true I don't know.]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than going to a garage
makes you a car." - Laurence J. Peter

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
All I know is that after returning to the US from a year's stay in
Germany, I was a little bit afraid every time I plugged anything in,
due to the ease with which one's fingers slide down the plug and touch
the contacts.

That's impossible as the pins have insulation down most of their length -
only the end part makes contact. And in any case most UK socket outlets
have switches. Decent plugs have a skirt which would prevent your fingers
slipping towards the pins anyway - only cheap ones not.

--
*I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.