Dual 505
 

"Java Jive" wrote in message
...
The way mine was wired (*), and assuming that yours is not likely to
be very different. Mine was a very old model, though, bought c1974,
and if yours is not of the same vintage hopefully things will have
improved. Nevertheless, I wouldn't bank on it, my impression being
that less, not more, care is taken over decks these days. I think
the
manufacturers tend to think: "This is never going to have
comparable
output to a good CD deck, so we'll make it cheap and cheerful!"
That
means a ceramic cartridge and not much attention given to things
like
hum suppression. I hope for your sake that I'm wrong, but time will
soon tell.

* The wiring mistakes were as follows ...

:-( The deck was made of metal, yet originally supplied with a
two-core, that is unearthed, mains cable. Very early on in its
life,
I changed the mains lead for a three-core one with the earth
attached
to the deck metal. Not only was this a lot safer in theory, in
practice it also meant that when dismounting a record I didn't get
electric shocks from static having built up from the normal action
of
the stylus in the groove. When I first did this, I was using a
properly earthed amp, so didn't notice any increase in hum, IIRC
quite
the reverse in fact, but by the time a couple of years ago when I
was
doing the digitisation, I was using an amp with a two-core mains
lead,
that is, although it had an earth point for a deck, it itself was
not
earthed, and the deck now gave a big hum.

:-( When analysing this hum, the next thing I noticed was that the
arm and cartridge holder were grounded to the deck metal. Just
cutting, or in my case unsoldering, the cartridge holder earth
underneath the deck and instead taking it out the back to the earth
point on the amp made quite a bit of difference, but didn't get rid
of
the hum entirely.

:-( Then I realised, and proved it with a resistance meter, that
the tone arm was not electrically insulated from the deck metal,
which
meant that even after the above link had been fixed, the wiring to
the
cartridge still picked up hum from being surrounded by the metal
tube
of the tone arm. What follows is definitely not something to be
recommended, but it being a very, very old and already beat up deck
with zilch second-hand value, for example the lid hinges had broken
within a couple of years of purchase, I didn't mind hazarding
breaking
it altogether, and so completely dismantled the tone arm, replacing
the wiring with the smallest stereo coaxial wiring I could find, so
that the outer sheath being grounded protected the signal wires
within, and this completely fixed the hum. However such cable is a
lot less flexible than the original very thin and delicate wiring
that
is commonly used to wire between the terminals of the cartridge and
the outputs at the back, so this introduced tracking problems which
took a lot of trial and error to fix, which is why it's not
something
to be generally recommended.

So if yours has a hum, my advice would be to repatriate it
immediately
as not being "fit for purpose".


Going back 30+ years most kit was only two core, the only three-core
being on the amp so that there would never be any hum loops. Even now
I have
Hitachi DD T/T
Denon TU260LII
Sony MD???
Marantz CD5400SE
NAD 312
Denon 555 dual cassette
Rotel RB850
and the only item there with a three-core cable is the turntable. The
turntable earth is only to the motor body and is completely isolated
from the audio connections but I have not a glimmer of hum anywhere.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 18:06, Eiron wrote:
On 16/02/2015 17:49, Java Jive wrote:
If by phone input you mean one with RIAA bias-correction, then why not
just take the line out of that amp to your soundcard instead. That's
what I did, the results were very acceptable, and I reckoned it was a
lot easier than faffing around with a preamp, and trying to avoid it
introducing hum that I'd already spent so many hours trying to remove.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:47:58 +0000, Sumatriptan
wrote:

I do have an ancient amplifier with mm phono input (anyone remember the
Texan amp kit?)


Is the Texan phono input stage good enough? I doubt it.


It is RIAA but when I powered my Texan up a few years ago it had some
hum so I'm going to have to 'faff around' to fix it if I use it. Here's
a schematic:

http://www.angelfire.com/sd/paulkemble/sound8h.html

Love this, 'covering 5Hz--500kHz'

The line out is simply a potential divider across the speaker output. I
might try it as per Java Jive's suggestion. Haven't even got the tt yet
so nothing is definite atm.

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 17:42, Java Jive wrote:

So if yours has a hum, my advice would be to repatriate it immediately
as not being "fit for purpose".


OK, noted. I have chased earth-loop hum in other contexts so I know how
tricky it can be to track down. My fingers are crossed.

Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 14:58, Jim Lesurf wrote:


"Analogue Productions Ultimate Analogue Test LP"

is still available.


OK, on my accessories list.

aside A few minutes ago I watched an unused, genuine Shure N55E stylus
in original packaging auction for £52.66 on Ebay. Phew!


to -18dB in the digital file. This gives headroom for loud sounds and means


Understood

the LPs, etc. Have fun and enjoy the music rather than regard it as a task
to be ground though.


Absolutely.

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 1:04 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.

**The 505 was a disaster. You WILL be sorry. The 505-1 & 505-2 ,etc were
brilliant. The original 505 was a fine turntable with an extremely
crappy 'headshell'. They ALL fail. New headshells have not been
available for a very long time. Before supplies completely dried up, I
had seen them sell for as much as US$40.00 each! The only potential
replacements I've seen recently appear to be 3D printed ones. eBay
sellers have them at around US$20.00 ~ $25.00 each. They look very
flimsy and I doubt they will last. The subsequent 505 models used a far
superior headshell, which doesn't fall apart.

I wish you had consulted us before you purchased.


A reputation for solid, long lasting performance. Made in Germany before
manufacturing went to China in 2000.

**Dual was sold to Thorens. AFAIK, Thorens is still made in Germany.
They still use some of the Dual items in their turntables.


Unlike the 506, the headshell will take standard cartridges which brings
me to..

It has a M55E cartridge which the seller tells me was recently fitted.

Comes with Dual's ultra low mass tone arm.

With manual and in original packaging.

Support and spares such as belts seem to be readily available, although
the seller says he isn't aware of any issues.

**The drive belt is easy. They can be sourced from a variety of sellers.
The speed control belt is not so easy to source, but that is not a major
problem. The headshell, OTOH, IS a major problem.


I see a few people doubting if vinyl--digital is worth it. Rationally,
I'm not sure either but I think it will be fun trying.

**Fitted with a really nice cartridge, the Dual 505-2, 3, etc will
provide excellent results.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 1:49 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 14:24, Java Jive wrote:
I hope for your sake that it doesn't turn out to have a hum, but after
my experiences with my Dual 601, I'm inclined to think it most
probably will ...


Thanks for the info. Any reason for thinking that the problem may be
common to all Dual models?



**No. Dual turntables were some of the best resolved turntables in their
price class. I doubt you will have any problems, unless it has been
worked on by an idiot.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 16:44, John R Leddy wrote:
Sumatriptan;93653 Wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77.
I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual 505 on Ebay for
'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.
Which model of 505 did you buy?
Inflation aside, £77.00 isn't far off what a CS 505-1 cost when it was
new.

Back in the day, the mags would have us believe a
Dual CS 505-1 turntable + New Acoustic Dimension 3020 integrated
amplifier + a pair of Acoustic Research AR19 loudspeakers
was the best buy budget system to own.

Ah, dreams of Rega Planar 3 and A&R Cambridge A60...




Dreams indeed

It's a CS 505-1

Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 8:13 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
On 16/02/2015 16:44, John R Leddy wrote:
Sumatriptan;93653 Wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77.
I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual 505 on Ebay for
'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged mine.
Which model of 505 did you buy?
Inflation aside, £77.00 isn't far off what a CS 505-1 cost when it was
new.

Back in the day, the mags would have us believe a
Dual CS 505-1 turntable + New Acoustic Dimension 3020 integrated
amplifier + a pair of Acoustic Research AR19 loudspeakers
was the best buy budget system to own.

Ah, dreams of Rega Planar 3 and A&R Cambridge A60...




Dreams indeed

It's a CS 505-1

**That is bad news. Send it back if you can.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 17/02/2015 7:11 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 1:04 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged
mine.

**The 505 was a disaster. You WILL be sorry. The 505-1 & 505-2 ,etc were
brilliant.

**OOps. Should read: "The 505-2 & 505-3, etc...."

There never was a 505-1. It was just the 505.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

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Dual 505
 

On 16/02/2015 21:17, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 7:11 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 17/02/2015 1:04 AM, Sumatriptan wrote:
Yesterday, I got a Dual 505 on Ebay for £77. I know there are Denons,
Thorens etc. around but I have a budget...

Here's why I chose it:

The price was right! I've seen them on sale for £120+ and another Dual
505 on Ebay for 'spares or repairs' went for £60 just after I snagged
mine.

**The 505 was a disaster. You WILL be sorry. The 505-1 & 505-2 ,etc were
brilliant.

**OOps. Should read: "The 505-2 & 505-3, etc...."

There never was a 505-1. It was just the 505.


Whatever, it was the first of the 505s.

As you will realise, it has a headshell adapter fitted to accomodate the
Shure cartridge.

So, why was this model 'a disaster' ?