Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

On 2016-01-26 13:45:30 +0000, Jim Lesurf said:

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:

It was an issue some UK broadcast engineers noticed IIRC. They were
aware of it because a lot of radio and TV listening was in mono.

Broadcasters were using this player?

Swap cart for horse. :-) My recollection is seeing reports that some had
considered it, but rejected it because mono listeners would get rolled away
HF when mono CDs were played into the programme.

So the correct description is that the *avoided* using it when the realised
what would happen.

Jim

Just for fun, some nummbers:

The response of the comb filter caused by the delay d, relative to
simple summing is

sqr( ( 1.0 + cos ( omega * d ) ) / 2.0 )

For 11.3 us this gives -0.56dB at 10kHz, -1.3dB at 15kHz

Arthur

--
real email arthur at bellacat dot com

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

On 26/01/2016 16:17, Arthur Quinn wrote:

For 11.3 us this gives -0.56dB at 10kHz, -1.3dB at 15kHz

As if you would notice on AM or even FM.

--
Eiron.

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

In article , Eiron
wrote:
On 26/01/2016 16:17, Arthur Quinn wrote:

For 11.3 us this gives -0.56dB at 10kHz, -1.3dB at 15kHz

As if you would notice on AM or even FM.

Can't say I dissagree. But I assume the reaction at the time was simply
that, "Other CD players are available that don't do it, so might as well
avoid the Sony and use an alternative". That's what I think I read at the
time, anyway. I'm just reporting what I recall being said. Others outside
the UK may have reacted quite differently for all I know. I suspect NHK
might have favoured Sony over Philips. 8-]

However, the original x4 chipset of Philips was a neat idea and worked
nicely. So not exactly a bad choice. My 1st gen Marantz player using the
same chipset worked nicely for decades. May still do so, although its been
in a box in the shed for ages, which may have upset it by now.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Can't say I dissagree. But I assume the reaction at the time was simply
that, "Other CD players are available that don't do it, so might as well
avoid the Sony and use an alternative". That's what I think I read at the
time, anyway. I'm just reporting what I recall being said. Others outside
the UK may have reacted quite differently for all I know. I suspect NHK
might have favoured Sony over Philips. 8-]

I doubt any broadcaster would have used a domestic product anyway. A pro
machine would have needed things like remote start facilities even then.
And balanced outputs, etc.

Think the first pro CD player I saw was Denon. Or possibly Studer. No idea
what chipset they used.

--
*Ambition is a poor excuse for not having enough sense to be lazy *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

On 26/01/2016 15:58, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 26/01/2016 13:54, Jim Lesurf wrote:
Afraid that in those days broadcasters - particularly at the BBC were
expected to obsess about the OGP. i.e. the Old Granny Problem of the
listeners who use older kit, or the older recordings to be played out.

A problem that has plagued those of us on the picture side right up to
the digital switch-over!

I take it you're referring to aspect ratio?

Yup, shoot widescreen but "protect" for 4:3 and don't forget 14:9.


Not sure I like the modern solution - simply ignore it. So end up with
archive material being broadcast in the wrong aspect ratio, when an insert
to a prog. Would never do to have some of that 60" screen with borders to
the sides. ;-)

Quite agree


And ARCing it is often no better.


Trouble is they tend to just ARC into the middle of the picture rather
than take the time to reframe the pictures appropriately.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:



It was an issue some UK broadcast engineers noticed IIRC. They were
aware of it because a lot of radio and TV listening was in mono.


** That is simply non credible.


But the reality in the UK at the time.

** Shame you have no proof and it makes no sense.


1) Many listeners to FM radio in the UK were were listening in mono,


** On portables which would not show any effect.


2) Many older recordings were mono, even when re-released on Audio CD.


** But very few CDs were ever released in mono and it makes ZERO difference when played on a stereo system.


Given the availability of CD players that didn't time-offset the channels
it was easy to avoid the risk of problems..

** So far you have not described the "problem" at all.


If you want to argue, you'd need a Tardis to go back and argue with the
broadcasters of the time. I just recall reading about it at the time.

** But where did you read this? In hi-fi rags ??


But it would cause treble roll-off for mono radio reception.

** But only with a mono CD in use.

See (2) above.

What does "mono radio" mean ?

See (1) above.


** So you have no actual answers.


..... Phil

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:



It was an issue some UK broadcast engineers noticed IIRC. They were
aware of it because a lot of radio and TV listening was in mono.

Broadcasters were using this player?

Swap cart for horse. :-) My recollection is seeing reports that some had
considered it, but rejected it because mono listeners would get rolled away
HF when mono CDs were played into the programme.

So the correct description is that the *avoided* using it when the realised
what would happen.


** So there was no trial to see if the hypothesis was real.

FYI:

Stereo tape recorders, even good R to R ones, typically have greater channel to channel time errors than 11uS - especially when playing tapes from other machines.

Nearly all LPs were made from stereo tapes, with the same problem cut into the vinyl.


..... Phil









..... Phil

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

The big advantage of using ethernet-based 'just a filing system'
methods is that you can dodge such nonsense. But may then not know if
the actual playout device *is* playing without tampering with the
samples. Depends, as ever, on the device and its design.

I know Sonos Connect doesn't re-sample as enough people have done bit
perfect tests on it from its digital out.

OK. :-)

My Linn Akurate does re-sample everything up to I think, 384KHz before
feeding its DAC. That doesn't concern me as TBH I love the thing.

The Linn upsampling to 384k is unlikely to give any problems with sound
quality. The main problems tend to be in consumer kit that blindly does
needless conversions like 44.1k - 48k at low resolutions.

As a general rule, the lower the input and output rates and the 'closer'
and more awkward their ratio, the harder it is to do a good conversion.

The chalk and cheese here is :

1) Modern DACs and ADCs of good quality often 'upsample' to high rates (and
these days many-bit values). This lets them work with great accuracy.

2) Crappy consumer kit may simply do little better than linear
interpolations with low rates and low resolutions. This makes the results
poor.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

In article , Huge
scribeth thus
On 2016-01-24, Phil Allison wrote:

[17 lines snipped]

Any shortcomings in sound quality from a CD is not the fault of the disk or
the 16bit/ 44.1kHz PCM format - but rather the recording industry that still
only gets it right on occasion.

*applause*

Agreed too!...
--
Tony Sayer

Model numbers and a new description of fault.. was Couple of cd queries, model numbers later
 

Marantz
CD6000 Ose
Has issues now with cdrs particularly detecting them and track starts
manually selected unless selected by going backwards through the disc.
Lens cleaned with only marginal improvement.
Dropouts on cdrws.

Panasonic
DVD s500
Has poor software when used as a cd player.
It does not seem to allow gap free playing of continuous cds with track
markers. Acts like its doing track at once rather then disc at once if we
are talking recording, but this is on playback. Seems its a firmware issue
from new.
Wondered if anyone knew if it was updated via a cd or something.
it was very cheap so cannot really complain. it has a wonderful sound on
cds though, better than the Marantz.
Other foibles is that it has a tendency to clip the ends and starts of mp3
files on cD or ram stick .

If Panasonic did a cd player with the same sound as this device I'd buy one
tomorrow, assuming no firmware glitches.
Brian



"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
...
Well I've had the to off, moved the laser to the outside of a disc, and
then turned the power off, manually removed the disc and cleaned the lens
with a ipa soaked cotton bud and dried it. It is better but still not
right. The lens to me seems to have some back and forward play as if a
toothed gear is not meshed very well. Surely its not worn out already, its
done far less hours than some of the dvd players bought for little money,
and the cd100 which has had massive use over the years.

Some people think lasers age over time so this could be another thing to
consider. I've always thought in the rush to get new models out there,
very little is known about the aging of components used in them any more.
People just trust what the makers say and use them. Capacitors are a case
in point, as are PIR sensors, all of which seem to have a very short life.

In a sub woofer I have the bridge rectifier has had to be replaced with a
bigger one as it kept on trashing the ones fitted as they simply war not
rated for the surge current at switch on charging up all the capacitors.
Bad design, making things as cheap as possible and people making
decisions who are not technical enough.
Brian

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
On 24/01/2016 10:39, Brian-Gaff wrote:
No I'm darn sorf, in surrey.
I think in the past it was sometimes an adjustment on the pcb, but
there
seem to be none on this unit. I suppose another machine might in the end
be
the answer. the innards of these devices seem to be very empty these
days,
Hardly high density pcbs though there is a fairly large mains
transformer
which has started to buzz a little when on.

You can adjust it if you have a manual, an oscilloscope and the correct
test disc.
But the test disc will be unobtainable.

I got a nice Denon CD player for 20 quid from the British Heart
Foundation
shop in Mitcham. Almost Surrey, very musical, plays home-made CDs, can't
complain.

The Marantz in the garage, on the other hand, stopped working last week.
I suspect it was sulking after my earlier comments. Warming it up didn't
help
but taking the cover off and blowing out a load of dust did.
That's very musical too, just like every other CD player since about
1990.

My first DVD player, an expensive Marantz, always missed the first half
second
or so of a CD track. I don't know what happened to it but it's long gone.

--
Eiron.


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----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!

--
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!