Why Bose?
 

Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:
keskiviikko 19. heinäkuuta 2017 3.13.11 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:
Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:


Don't kid yourself:-)

If you had gone to the back of the stage you would probably have
found small Soundcraft mixer, fader positions marked with sticky
tape and red marker pen, set up by whoever installed the system.
At the sound check of such gigs, it is usually the bouncer or the
barman who stands in front of the stage for 30 seconds and says,
"Yes. I can hear everyone"

... which is why I was hired by a band back in the late 70s / early
80s to initially set up the mixer (and tweak as the room filled or
otherwise) before / during operating what started as rudimentary
stage lighting (progressing on to a full off-stage mix a few months
later and more lights every so often).

I spent three years working with that band, living in hotels and
'band accomodation' eight nights out of ten and touring the country,
most often driving the bands bus between towns on Sun/Mon or
Tuesday. I have many many fond memories of that time (and more than
a few gaps...). ;) --

Halcyon days!

Indeed.

Working at a recording studio, I didn't have much spare time,afer
work, overtime and study. But when I did, I played vibraphone in a
MJQ-style band called "Sophisticated Jazz" at hotel and night club
gig, whenever time permitted. I was a huge John Lewis/Milt Jackson
fan at the time.

The band I worked with started with a mix of their own music and covers.
Their were five members, most multi-instrumentalists with their own
preference of music so their original material was some jazz-rock 'fusion'
with some blues thrown in. However over the years, due to the (pub and club)
crowds they mostly played to, the original material was first relegated
mostly to the opening set then dispensed with all together in favour of
covers. I've never since heard any band play Skynrd's Freebird (the live
version) complete with twin leads playing note for note, tone for tone
virtually identical to the original - or Steely Dan's 'The Royal Scam'
complete with note-perfect muted trumpet parts.

Most places where we played had a handful of Reslo mics, and a small
mixer on which the levels and fixed-band EQs had been set up when the
system was initially installed. On the top of the mixer was usually a
paper "Don't touch!" Our guitarist and bass player both had small
combo amps, and so an an acoustic band we controlled our own internal
balance and were not dependent on PA.

The band I worked with originally had four of the five guys take turns as
lead vocals for various songs as well as mics for alto and tennor sax,
trombone and trumpet going through an 8 channel on-stage mixer. Guitars,
bass and keyboards had their own amps and set their volumes per my
instructions. We started small with a couple Perreaux 'Blockbuster'
amplifiers (each with one each 180 & 70 watt channels - I still have one),
one per side powering a 'W bin' with an 18" driver, a 12" midrange and a
horn topped by an array of six piezo 'sizzlers'. 250w per side.

Latterly I ended up micing first the drums then the bass, guitars and
keyboard / synths (Fender Rhodes / Korg) amps through a (hired) 5kw a side
PA with a 24 channel off-stage mixing desk. The lighting system underwent a
similar upgrade over that time. We owned a bus that I had converted to 70:30
freight / passenger with double-doors on the back to fit the rather large
speaker systems (mostly JBL) and amplification (mostly Perreaux) in. No Bose
in sight, though there were a couple of large clubs that had secondary PA
systems for the back of the club and bar area that were Bose.

I also fully reconditioned the engine of the bus during a rare week off (A
Bedford 300 diesel) and did some singing during practices! It was a
wonderful, crazy time. :)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Why Bose?
 

Once upon a time on usenet ~misfit~ wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:
keskiviikko 19. heinäkuuta 2017 3.13.11 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:
Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:


Don't kid yourself:-)

If you had gone to the back of the stage you would probably have
found small Soundcraft mixer, fader positions marked with sticky
tape and red marker pen, set up by whoever installed the system.
At the sound check of such gigs, it is usually the bouncer or the
barman who stands in front of the stage for 30 seconds and says,
"Yes. I can hear everyone"

... which is why I was hired by a band back in the late 70s / early
80s to initially set up the mixer (and tweak as the room filled or
otherwise) before / during operating what started as rudimentary
stage lighting (progressing on to a full off-stage mix a few months
later and more lights every so often).

I spent three years working with that band, living in hotels and
'band accomodation' eight nights out of ten and touring the country,
most often driving the bands bus between towns on Sun/Mon or
Tuesday. I have many many fond memories of that time (and more than
a few gaps...). ;) --

Halcyon days!

Indeed.

Working at a recording studio, I didn't have much spare time,afer
work, overtime and study. But when I did, I played vibraphone in a
MJQ-style band called "Sophisticated Jazz" at hotel and night club
gig, whenever time permitted. I was a huge John Lewis/Milt Jackson
fan at the time.

The band I worked with started with a mix of their own music and
covers. Their were five members, most multi-instrumentalists with
their own preference of music so their original material was some
jazz-rock 'fusion' with some blues thrown in. However over the years,
due to the (pub and club) crowds they mostly played to, the original
material was first relegated mostly to the opening set then dispensed
with all together in favour of covers. I've never since heard any
band play Skynrd's Freebird (the live version) complete with twin
leads playing note for note, tone for tone virtually identical to the
original - or Steely Dan's 'The Royal Scam' complete with
note-perfect muted trumpet parts.
Most places where we played had a handful of Reslo mics, and a small
mixer on which the levels and fixed-band EQs had been set up when the
system was initially installed. On the top of the mixer was usually a
paper "Don't touch!" Our guitarist and bass player both had small
combo amps, and so an an acoustic band we controlled our own internal
balance and were not dependent on PA.

The band I worked with originally had four of the five guys take
turns as lead vocals for various songs as well as mics for alto and
tennor sax, trombone and trumpet going through an 8 channel on-stage
mixer. Guitars, bass and keyboards had their own amps and set their
volumes per my instructions. We started small with a couple Perreaux
'Blockbuster' amplifiers (each with one each 180 & 70 watt channels -
I still have one), one per side powering a 'W bin' with an 18"
driver, a 12" midrange and a horn topped by an array of six piezo
'sizzlers'. 250w per side.
Latterly I ended up micing first the drums then the bass, guitars and
keyboard / synths (Fender Rhodes / Korg) amps through a (hired) 5kw a
side PA with a 24 channel off-stage mixing desk. The lighting system
underwent a similar upgrade over that time. We owned a bus that I had
converted to 70:30 freight / passenger with double-doors on the back
to fit the rather large speaker systems (mostly JBL) and
amplification (mostly Perreaux) in. No Bose in sight, though there
were a couple of large clubs that had secondary PA systems for the
back of the club and bar area that were Bose.
I also fully reconditioned the engine of the bus during a rare week
off (A Bedford 300 diesel) and did some singing during practices! It
was a wonderful, crazy time. :)

In case anyone's wondering about the Perreaux amplification I'm in New
Zealand. :) They got their start in the early 1970s making PA amps using
BPJ transitor output devices and only 'discovered' MOSFETs in the mid / late
80s - at about which time they decided to go into the home audio market and
by the 1990s had, TTBOMK, stopped making PA amps.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Why Bose?
 

~misfit~ wrote:

-----------------



In case anyone's wondering about the Perreaux amplification I'm in New
Zealand. :) They got their start in the early 1970s making PA amps using
BPJ transitor output devices and only 'discovered' MOSFETs in the mid / late
80s



** The first Perreaux MOSFET amps were released in 1979, two internally fan cooled models the PMF2000 and PMF2000B were very successful using Hitachi lateral TO3 devices to full advantage. Later followed improved models with higher power, the PMF5000B, PMF6000B and PMF8000B plus the PMF9000C which supplied 500, 600, 800 900 wpc respectively.

There were also hi-fi models without noisy fans, the PMF2150, PMF3150 and PMF5150 - which was an absolute beast. I know cos I had to service a number of them, just lifting them on and off the bench was an event.

Manufacture came to a sudden halt in the late 1980s when Perreaux suffered a financial crisis and Hitachi announced they were discontinuing lateral TO3 MOSFETs. Since then, Perreaux has continued under new management making hi-fi amps only.

See internal pic of a PMF6000B.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...d=11796937 34


...... Phil

Why Bose?
 

lauantai 22. heinäkuuta 2017 4.49.22 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:


The band I worked with started with a mix of their own music and covers.
Their were five members, most multi-instrumentalists with their own
preference of music so their original material was some jazz-rock 'fusion'
with some blues thrown in. However over the years, due to the (pub and club)
crowds they mostly played to, the original material was first relegated
mostly to the opening set then dispensed with all together in favour of
covers. I've never since heard any band play Skynrd's Freebird (the live
version) complete with twin leads playing note for note, tone for tone
virtually identical to the original - or Steely Dan's 'The Royal Scam'
complete with note-perfect muted trumpet parts.



The band I worked with originally had four of the five guys take turns as
lead vocals for various songs as well as mics for alto and tennor sax,
trombone and trumpet going through an 8 channel on-stage mixer. Guitars,
bass and keyboards had their own amps and set their volumes per my
instructions. We started small with a couple Perreaux 'Blockbuster'
amplifiers (each with one each 180 & 70 watt channels - I still have one),
one per side powering a 'W bin' with an 18" driver, a 12" midrange and a
horn topped by an array of six piezo 'sizzlers'. 250w per side.

Latterly I ended up micing first the drums then the bass, guitars and
keyboard / synths (Fender Rhodes / Korg) amps through a (hired) 5kw a side
PA with a 24 channel off-stage mixing desk. The lighting system underwent a
similar upgrade over that time. We owned a bus that I had converted to 70:30
freight / passenger with double-doors on the back to fit the rather large
speaker systems (mostly JBL) and amplification (mostly Perreaux) in. No Bose
in sight, though there were a couple of large clubs that had secondary PA
systems for the back of the club and bar area that were Bose.

I also fully reconditioned the engine of the bus during a rare week off (A
Bedford 300 diesel) and did some singing during practices! It was a
wonderful, crazy time. :)
--

You have some good memories, and hopefully a few photos too:-)



I never had the chance to tour. Gigs were close to home and even though we played often till 3am, we drove home in the early hours.

Much later, in the 1980s after I had left the UK, I was recording a band called "The Tigers". It had been a three week project, and, as was customary, I was due two weeks paid leave after it. I mentioned this to one of the band who said "We are off to Gotenburg tomorrow for a ten day tour. Come with us. I did. It was brilliant.

They were well-organised, and had two roadies, one of whom mixed the gig. He was happy to hand this chore over to me. Some gigs were at dance halls, some in hotels, and others in village community centres. We were well fed, and there was no shortage of Absolut either.

Iain

Why Bose?
 

perjantai 21. heinäkuuta 2017 18.00.13 UTC+3 Dave Plowman (News) kirjoitti:
In article ,
Phil Allison wrote:
Don Pearce wrote:

-------------------------


Wood. You can buy some if you want



** The 802W ( wood & plastic ) is a rare, later version of the plastic 802.

As you damn well know.

You stinking pommy ****.


And Brexiteers say the way forward is a trade agreement with Oz. Only if
we can supply them with some decent meds.

Dave. Now is the time to stop digging, or you will soon be able to discuss this topic with both Trevor and Phil, face to face.

You didn't answer my question about the vocalist and quartet, which suggests that you are unaware that at such a gig, bass and guitar use their own combo amps. The drums often need no amplification at all, so what you heard was probably just a vocal via Bose. It is quite possible that an amp/EQ/speaker with a response curve like a dog's leg made the vocal sound quite good :-)

The other possibility is that you are simply trolling:-)

Best regards
Iain

Why Bose?
 

keskiviikko 19. heinäkuuta 2017 16.49.36 UTC+3 Jim Lesurf kirjoitti:
In article , Iain
Churches wrote:

Halcyon days!

Working at a recording studio, I didn't have much spare time,afer work,
overtime and study. But when I did, I played vibraphone in a MJQ-style
band called "Sophisticated Jazz" at hotel and night club gig, whenever
time permitted. I was a huge John Lewis/Milt Jackson fan at the time.


Alas my performing experiences weren't quite in that class..

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history...PantoPlus.html :-)

Quite the opposite Jim. Pics at the link above show you to be in a class of your own. You would have been a hit in any Gilbert and SuLlivan production:-)

Iain

Why Bose?
 

keskiviikko 19. heinäkuuta 2017 19.03.25 UTC+3 James Perrett kirjoitti:
On Wed, 19 Jul 2017 11:49:37 +0100, Iain Churches wrote:

keskiviikko 19. heinäkuuta 2017 13.01.30 UTC+3 Dave Plowman (News)
kirjoitti:


(Dave enthuses about Bose)

At that point in time, unusually good for a PA system. And likely a
million times better than anything you ever heard then. As most were
pretty poor then.

Sorry Dave, but that simply is not true! The best places in the 70's,
Marquee, 100 Club, Mandrake, Raffles, Ronnie Scott's (the old address)
all had Crown driving JBL. A vastly superior combination, and still the
choice of many venues and concerts today.


While there may have been expensive JBL systems that sounded better than
Bose, the average JBL system that I heard was pretty disappointing.
However, I remember they had a booth at one of the hifi shows where they
demoed some of their PA gear at high volume which sounded impressive - too
bad none of their customers seemed to be able to make them sound that good.

At that time, JBL and Altec were used for both serious PA rigs and also studio monitoring. I have see plenty of Bose in home theatre applications
but never in a studio control room.

I would have to add that, of the venues you mention, I've only ever been
to the 100 Club and I don't remember being particularly impressed with the
sound (although I don't remember it being bad either).

Most clubs redecorated regularly, so sound systems were updated too.
The 100 Club was a difficult location for SR. But the jazz nights were particularly good. I played there a few times and was a member of the audience much more frequently. I always tried to sit centre, fairly close to the band.

One cannot expect the SR in such a location to match what one might expect to hear in a concert hall. But a club gig has a magic of its own:-)

Iain

Why Bose?
 

Once upon a time on usenet Phil Allison wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:

-----------------



In case anyone's wondering about the Perreaux amplification I'm in
New Zealand. :) They got their start in the early 1970s making PA
amps using BPJ transitor output devices and only 'discovered'
MOSFETs in the mid / late 80s



** The first Perreaux MOSFET amps were released in 1979, two
internally fan cooled models the PMF2000 and PMF2000B were very
successful using Hitachi lateral TO3 devices to full advantage. Later
followed improved models with higher power, the PMF5000B, PMF6000B
and PMF8000B plus the PMF9000C which supplied 500, 600, 800 900 wpc
respectively.

Yep, my bad, it was a typo, I meant to say mid / late 70s. I'm pretty sure
that they made a few MOSFET PA amps for the domestic market before branching
into those domestic amps.

There were also hi-fi models without noisy fans, the PMF2150, PMF3150
and PMF5150 - which was an absolute beast. I know cos I had to
service a number of them, just lifting them on and off the bench was
an event.

I have an engineer mate who has a few of the Perreaux TO3 amps and he runs
then through JBLs. (something) 100 something (?) speakers, 3-way with 12"
woofer, about mid-thigh high, apparently classics. Must chase him up
actually, been out of touch a while (in person at least). He lives an hours
drive away and I have no other reason to go that way, hence long time no
see.

Manufacture came to a sudden halt in the late 1980s when Perreaux
suffered a financial crisis and Hitachi announced they were
discontinuing lateral TO3 MOSFETs. Since then, Perreaux has continued
under new management making hi-fi amps only.

They've also moved around NZ quite a lot. They started in Napier, went to
Christchurch and are now based in Auckland I think. I know Martin van Rooyen
is still with them as he emailed me from Perreaux last year. He's been with
them for a very long time.

See internal pic of a PMF6000B.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...d=11796937 34

I've got a bunch of internal pics of quite a few of those Hitachi TO3
lateral MOSFET Perreaux amps somewhere...

I see that they've sanitised their history section on their website so that
it doesn't cover much about their PA amps.
http://www.perreaux.com/about/perreaux-history
They used to have a page where they had pics from 1975, throwing one of
their Blockbuster PA amps off the roof of a single-story commercial unit in
Napier onto the concrete driveway, pics of the dented heatsinks then pics of
it powering up. It was a stunt to get bands and hire outfits to buy their
amplifiers, showing they couild take the knocks on the road. I guess as
they're chasing the big bucks audiophool market they don't want potential
buyers seeing that sort of thing these days. I wish I'd saved that page now,
I still have one of those Blockbusters (though not in working condition.)

Apparently throwing amps was something they stuck with for a while. I seem
to remember them putting stunts in NYC (IIRC) delivering hifi amplifiers by
throwing them (in their packaging) onto the sidewalk in front of the shops.
This was sometime in the late 80s I think. Their used to be an article about
it somewhere on the web, Perreaux 'demonstrating how tough their products
were' but I didn't bookmark it.

LOL, just searched and found mention of it in the January 1983 issue of
'Audio' magazine;
http://www.americanradiohistory.com/...io-1983-01.pdf
Page 69. It's an advert but a NZ magazine carried an article about it.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Why Bose?
 

Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:
lauantai 22. heinäkuuta 2017 4.49.22 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:

The band I worked with started with a mix of their own music and
covers. Their were five members, most multi-instrumentalists with
their own preference of music so their original material was some
jazz-rock 'fusion' with some blues thrown in. However over the
years, due to the (pub and club) crowds they mostly played to, the
original material was first relegated mostly to the opening set then
dispensed with all together in favour of covers. I've never since
heard any band play Skynrd's Freebird (the live version) complete
with twin leads playing note for note, tone for tone virtually
identical to the original - or Steely Dan's 'The Royal Scam'
complete with note-perfect muted trumpet parts.

The band I worked with originally had four of the five guys take
turns as lead vocals for various songs as well as mics for alto and
tennor sax, trombone and trumpet going through an 8 channel on-stage
mixer. Guitars, bass and keyboards had their own amps and set their
volumes per my instructions. We started small with a couple Perreaux
'Blockbuster' amplifiers (each with one each 180 & 70 watt channels
- I still have one), one per side powering a 'W bin' with an 18"
driver, a 12" midrange and a horn topped by an array of six piezo
'sizzlers'. 250w per side.

Latterly I ended up micing first the drums then the bass, guitars and
keyboard / synths (Fender Rhodes / Korg) amps through a (hired) 5kw
a side PA with a 24 channel off-stage mixing desk. The lighting
system underwent a similar upgrade over that time. We owned a bus
that I had converted to 70:30 freight / passenger with double-doors
on the back to fit the rather large speaker systems (mostly JBL) and
amplification (mostly Perreaux) in. No Bose in sight, though there
were a couple of large clubs that had secondary PA systems for the
back of the club and bar area that were Bose.

I also fully reconditioned the engine of the bus during a rare week
off (A Bedford 300 diesel) and did some singing during practices! It
was a wonderful, crazy time. :)
--

You have some good memories, and hopefully a few photos too:-)

Alas photograpy was quite an expensive hobby back then (at least for people
in my socio-econimic group). Also one of the band members had a brother who
was an artist and photographer who would tour with us sometimes and take a
lot of pics. He always said any of us could get copies so I didn't bother -
then never did get copies. When the band split up it wasn't a pleasant vibe.
Too much time on the road when four of the five performers were married. By
the time they split up one was divorced and two were seperated. A shame as
they were going from strength to strength holding the record for numbers
through the door at just about every venue on the circuit.

Funny you should mention photos though. I've got a pet peeve, with most
people having a camera and video recording device on them at all times they
seem to spend most of their lives recording the moment instead of living in
it. Why go to a concert then spend the evening watching a tiny shaky screen
as you record it? And it seems 8 out or 10 people are doing this! I bet they
don't even watch half of what they record (unless they want to see what they
missed...).

I never had the chance to tour. Gigs were close to home and even
though we played often till 3am, we drove home in the early hours.

Depending on your relationship status you may have been better off. That
said us single guys (and a couple of the married ones) had some very
memorable experiences.

Much later, in the 1980s after I had left the UK, I was recording a
band called "The Tigers". It had been a three week project, and, as
was customary, I was due two weeks paid leave after it. I mentioned
this to one of the band who said "We are off to Gotenburg tomorrow
for a ten day tour. Come with us. I did. It was brilliant.

Awesome! That's a problem in New Zealand - the tyrrany of distance. You can
only get so big here and then most bands go to Australia as it's closest
(and cheapest). I often wonder how we would have gone if we'd had access to
a larger audience.

They were well-organised, and had two roadies, one of whom mixed the
gig. He was happy to hand this chore over to me. Some gigs were at
dance halls, some in hotels, and others in village community centres.
We were well fed, and there was no shortage of Absolut either.

Heh! Sounds great fun. We didn't have roadies as such, we all chipped in
which was great, I'd have hated to have been considered 'the roadie' (as I
was basically support staff). That said I always got equal pay to the other
guys as they said my job was just as important as theirs and they'd only
really started going places after I joined in - free at first, at local
gigs. I was originally friends with the drummer (who was married to Split
Enz keyboardists Eddie Rayner's sister). Back then NZ was so small.

It was a memorable few years that's for sure. :)

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Why Bose?
 

Once upon a time on usenet Iain Churches wrote:
keskiviikko 19. heinäkuuta 2017 16.49.36 UTC+3 Jim Lesurf kirjoitti:
In article ,
Iain Churches wrote:

Halcyon days!

Working at a recording studio, I didn't have much spare time,afer
work, overtime and study. But when I did, I played vibraphone in a
MJQ-style band called "Sophisticated Jazz" at hotel and night club
gig, whenever time permitted. I was a huge John Lewis/Milt Jackson
fan at the time.


Alas my performing experiences weren't quite in that class..

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history...PantoPlus.html :-)

Quite the opposite Jim. Pics at the link above show you to be in a
class of your own. You would have been a hit in any Gilbert and
SuLlivan production:-)

Heh!

(Did I spy a Triumph Spitfire? "Pram"? I had one of those for a few years,
was lots of fun!)
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)