On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:

Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations...

https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/

There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as
good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion levels
which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned.
Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in
recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction.
Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head.

In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it,
but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid. But
don't go over a tenner.

d

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In article ,
UnsteadyKen wrote:
What does "upper mids being airy" mean?

According to one source: Airy - Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like
they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air.

That could be a problem if they were recorded in the usual smallish
studio.

Good
reproduction of high frequency reflections.

--
*Plagiarism saves time *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:

Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their
limitations...

https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/

There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as
good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion
levels
which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned.
Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in
recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction.
Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head.

In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it,
but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid.
But
don't go over a tenner.



Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc
played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort
of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:26:38 +0100, "Woody"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:

Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their
limitations...

https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/

There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as
good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion
levels
which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned.
Bass response is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in
recording, and by the necessary arm resonance at reproduction.
Treble response is limited by temperature rise in the cutting head.

In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it,
but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid.
But
don't go over a tenner.



Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc
played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort
of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold.

I've had the vastly greater pleasure of listening to uncompressed
performances on CDs, with no background noise, bass in actual stereo
and a full frequency range.

d

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In article ,
Woody wrote:
Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc
played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort
of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold.

I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where
it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to
that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor
second.

--
*If at first you do succeed, try not to look too astonished.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 12/10/2017 00:37, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Woody wrote:
Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc
played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort
of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold.


I'd agree - at least, a decent record played on a decent record player
sounds very good indeed. I genuinely can't understand why people insist
LPs as a matter of fact have 'muddy bass' and 'no treble'. In a domestic
setting, it is at least in the same ballpark as digital.

About now, I have to conclude opinions on all of this are a combination
of hearing 'characteristics' and plain bias with a twist of auto-suggestion.

I've had the joy of listening to the live sound in the control room where
it's being balanced/recorded. Only a good digital recording comes close to
that. Analogue tape never did, and any form of disc recording a very poor
second.


Wouldn't a recording be 'going through' the tape, like on a 3 head
cassette deck? No idea, perhaps not.

If what you say is the general case, it does make me wonder how much
better all the analogue recordings could have been. As things stand, I'm
very happy with a lot of my pre-70s music's sound quality. More so than
a lot of recent stuff.

--
Cheers, Rob

On 11/10/2017 18:10, Huge wrote:
On 2017-10-11, UnsteadyKen wrote:
In article ,
says...
What does "upper mids being airy" mean?

According to one source: Airy - Spacious. Open. Instruments sound like
they are surrounded by a large reflective space full of air. Good
reproduction of high frequency reflections.


Was the "meaty" bass
pork or cow? How large is an epic soundstage? 10 m?


Reviewers have been using those and similar terms since the year dot and


... they've been meaningless wank that whole time.


If it can't be measured it can't be of significance?



--
Cheers, Rob

In article ,
UnsteadyKen
wrote:


Reviewers have been using those and similar terms since the year dot and
I would have thought that anyone interested in audio reproduction would
be familiar with them. Magazines and websites publish glossaries.

Yes, we're certainly familiar with them. As we are with the way many
politicians waffle. Having heard something many times doesn't mean it tells
you anything useful.

I don't care what waffle a reviewer uses because I don't care what *he*
likes or dislikes. I would prefer information I can reliable use to tell me
what I'd make of the item in my situation, not his.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Woody
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 09:20:19 +0100, Adrian Caspersz
wrote:

Just spotted some rebranding going on, they know their limitations...

https://thevinylfactory.com/features...sley-c10-c100/

There is no such thing as top end with vinyl. Poor-to-middling is as
good as it is possible to get. It has built into it distortion levels
which, in an amplifier, would result in it being binned. Bass response
is limited by the need to limit groove amplitude in recording, and by
the necessary arm resonance at reproduction. Treble response is
limited by temperature rise in the cutting head.

In short, if you are interested in musical reproduction, forget it,
but if you just want to collect interesting technology make a bid.
But don't go over a tenner.



Clearly you have never had the joy of listening to a direct cut disc
played on a good turntable with a moving coil cartridge into any sort
of reasonable system. It is a really something to behold.

I've been listening to some new ones recently. They are enjoyable. But have
little in the way of 'top end'. The main points are decent music with a
recording that hasn't been messed up by things like excess compression,
clipping, or weird EQ/effects... So I could say much the same about other
media.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , RJH
wrote:

If it can't be measured it can't be of significance?

Avoid the trap of assuming "we don't know everything" is a synonym for "we
know nothing". :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html