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Silly design of speaker.



 
 
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old April 13th 18, 08:46 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 637
Default Silly design of speaker.

Well horses for courses etc. I'm only driving them with 12.5 wats a channel
valve amps so hardly going to get over stressed.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"~misfit~" wrote in message
news
Once upon a time on usenet Brian Gaff wrote:
Yes well the terminals were obviously designed on these by one
person, they are of the sprung kind, and recessed, but then some
idiot put the port on the back. Like huh?

I guess this is what you often find when they have a name as tacky as
Skytronic, which sounds like it ws made up in about 10 seconds roungd
the pub.

Not to say that they sound bad, but that their placement is critical.


I have some Skytronic kevlar mid-woofers that I bought to try as
replacements for some woofers that had died in some random JBL speakers I
had. They'd be fine in DJ or PA gear (their target market) but weren't up
to the task I bought them for.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a
cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Once upon a time on usenet Jim Lesurf wrote:
The term "bookshelf" in this context has come to tend to be used to
mean "small enough to be placed on a bookshelf".

I have a pair of speakers that were sold as Bookshelf speakers by the
manufacturer - Goodmans Mezzo SLs. They're ... 530 x 320 x 250 deep
(but do have their small port on the front baffle). Even back in the
1970s when they were made "bookshelf" was a very loose term that had
very little to do with an actual bookshelf.

From a review in the March 1975 issue of Gramaphone:
"The Mezzo SL is described as a bookshelf speaker, but is moderately
large for such a description, measuring 21 x 12i x 10 inches."

Putting a boxed speaker close to a wall generally boosts the bass
output. Using an open port into free air also generally boosts the
bass output. Thus a designer might design the speaker to use one
effect *or* the other, depending on if the user chooses to place it
against a wall or not.

That same review says this of the Mezzo SL:
"Connections are made via, a recessed box which helpfully carries
both a standard 2-pin polarised DIN male socket and a pair of 4mm
(banana plug) sockets. The recess allows the speakers to be placed
flat against a wall, and such positioning is likely to give just the
level of natural bass lift which bookshelf-size speakers appreciate."

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

So it may be that they had more "tech knowledge" than you think.
OTOH it may have been a clueless / fashion choice on the part of
the maker. Jim

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I bought some fairly cheap bookshelf two unit speakers, and they
sound fine as long as they are at least a couple of foot away from
a wall as they have a port in the back of the cabinet. However they
are described as bookshelf design, and of cours as most bookshelves
are on walls this somewhat makes the port at the rear a silly
design. Not only that but they have the keyhole screw head
retainers and recessed terminals so you can hang them on the wall.
Do this and they sound like portable radios.

This is what happens when those in charge of selling stuff has no
tech knowledge of speaker design! Now if they had made the port in
the side or the bottom.... or the front for that matter! Brian






  #12 (permalink)  
Old April 13th 18, 12:31 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Iain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Silly design of speaker.

perjantai 13. huhtikuuta 2018 3.40.34 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:

I have some Skytronic kevlar mid-woofers that I bought to try as
replacements for some woofers that had died in some random JBL speakers I
had. They'd be fine in DJ or PA gear (their target market) but weren't up to
the task I bought them for.
--

Which is very good news, Or JBL would be out of business:-)

Skytronic seem to be aiming at the DJ, disco, karaoke sector.
PA (where JBL are the leaders) is quite a long way up-market
from this.

Iain
  #14 (permalink)  
Old April 14th 18, 12:55 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
~misfit~[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default Silly design of speaker.

Once upon a time on usenet Iain wrote:
perjantai 13. huhtikuuta 2018 3.40.34 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:

I have some Skytronic kevlar mid-woofers that I bought to try as
replacements for some woofers that had died in some random JBL
speakers I had. They'd be fine in DJ or PA gear (their target
market) but weren't up to the task I bought them for.
--

Which is very good news, Or JBL would be out of business:-)


It was an inexpensive roll of the dice that didn't work out.

Skytronic seem to be aiming at the DJ, disco, karaoke sector.
PA (where JBL are the leaders) is quite a long way up-market
from this.


The Skytronic stuff that I've seen is very power hungry. Efficiency isn't
where they compete that's for sure. However given enough power they're not
too bad. Sadly it wasn't possible for me to match the Skytronic mid woofers
with the crossovers and very efficient JBL titanium 'dome' tweeters.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)


  #15 (permalink)  
Old April 14th 18, 01:01 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
~misfit~[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default Silly design of speaker.

Once upon a time on usenet Brian Gaff wrote:
Not sure how one would get to the drive units on the dentons, they
seem to be sealed from what I can see.


The Denton 2 drivers can be removed from the front of the baffle after
removing the covers. They're flush-mounted with the front and the woofers
have four little 'L' clips that the screws go through which push against the
edge of the driver holding it in place.

I'm not sure how to remove the old brown glue from the surrounds (it let go
of the aluminium) and then what glue to use to replace it. They sound a but
mellow for my tastes anyway so they'll likely get sold as-is - that's if I
can find a buyer.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Once upon a time on usenet Brian Gaff wrote:
The fronts are detachable so the unwary can damage the bass unit and
small children can poke things in the tweeter.
Luckily, I'll not be removing them and have no small children.

I do own a pair of Walnut Dentons by Wharfdale, which still sound
quite good considering their age.


I alos have some walnut veneer Denton 2s but the rubber surround of
one of the woofers has become detatched from the aluminium chassis
(the glue has gone brittle and let go, the surrounds themselves are
fine). Consequently I haven't heard them for a few years, they're in
the 'round tuit' category but as I'll likely have to move into a
smaller home next year will probably be a bargain for someone. The
pink acetate coned tweeters are a real curiosity.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

keskiviikko 11. huhtikuuta 2018 13.56.51 UTC+3 Brian Gaff
kirjoitti:
Yes well the terminals were obviously designed on these by one
person, they
are of the sprung kind, and recessed, but then some idiot put the
port on the back. Like huh?

I guess this is what you often find when they have a name as tacky
as Skytronic, which sounds like it ws made up in about 10 seconds
roungd the pub.

Not to say that they sound bad, but that their placement is
critical. Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"~misfit~" wrote in message
news Once upon a time on usenet Jim Lesurf wrote:
The term "bookshelf" in this context has come to tend to be used
to mean "small enough to be placed on a bookshelf".

I have a pair of speakers that were sold as Bookshelf speakers by
the manufacturer - Goodmans Mezzo SLs. They're ... 530 x 320 x
250 deep (but
do have their small port on the front baffle). Even back in the
1970s when
they were made "bookshelf" was a very loose term that had very
little to
do with an actual bookshelf.

From a review in the March 1975 issue of Gramaphone:
"The Mezzo SL is described as a bookshelf speaker, but is
moderately large
for such a description, measuring 21 x 12i x 10 inches."

Putting a boxed speaker close to a wall generally boosts the
bass output. Using an open port into free air also generally
boosts the bass output. Thus a designer might design the
speaker to use one effect *or* the other, depending on if the
user chooses to place it against a wall or not.

That same review says this of the Mezzo SL:
"Connections are made via, a recessed box which helpfully carries
both a
standard 2-pin polarised DIN male socket and a pair of 4mm
(banana plug)
sockets. The recess allows the speakers to be placed flat
against a wall,
and such positioning is likely to give just the level of natural
bass lift
which bookshelf-size speakers appreciate."

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief
has a cozy little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

So it may be that they had more "tech knowledge" than you think.
OTOH it may have been a clueless / fashion choice on the part of
the maker. Jim

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I bought some fairly cheap bookshelf two unit speakers, and
they sound fine as long as they are at least a couple of foot
away from a wall as they have a port in the back of the
cabinet. However they are described as bookshelf design, and
of cours as most bookshelves are on walls this somewhat makes
the port at the rear a silly design. Not only that but they
have the keyhole screw head retainers and recessed terminals
so you can hang them on the wall. Do this and they sound like
portable radios.

This is what happens when those in charge of selling stuff has
no tech knowledge of speaker design! Now if they had made the
port in the side or the bottom.... or the front for that
matter! Brian





According to their brochure, Skytronic specialise in DJ and
karaoke equipment. You didn't mention the model number of
the speaker you have. But they have a bookshelf model that retails
at Euro 55. I don't think one can be too picky at that price:-)

Iain




  #16 (permalink)  
Old April 14th 18, 06:20 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
RJH[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 214
Default Silly design of speaker.

I think the OP meant the covers? IIRC they're a tight fit wooden frame
that fits in a cabinet recess. IIRC ;-)

On 14/04/2018 02:01, ~misfit~ wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet Brian Gaff wrote:
Not sure how one would get to the drive units on the dentons, they
seem to be sealed from what I can see.


The Denton 2 drivers can be removed from the front of the baffle after
removing the covers. They're flush-mounted with the front and the woofers
have four little 'L' clips that the screws go through which push against the
edge of the driver holding it in place.

I'm not sure how to remove the old brown glue from the surrounds (it let go
of the aluminium) and then what glue to use to replace it. They sound a but
mellow for my tastes anyway so they'll likely get sold as-is - that's if I
can find a buyer.



--
Cheers, Rob
  #17 (permalink)  
Old April 14th 18, 10:13 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
~misfit~[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default Silly design of speaker.

Once upon a time on usenet RJH wrote:
I think the OP meant the covers? IIRC they're a tight fit wooden frame
that fits in a cabinet recess. IIRC ;-)


My Denton 2s may be different to his. I slip a butter knife between the
fabric and the edge, away from a driver and gently lever them out. They sit
on four post and socket retainers.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

On 14/04/2018 02:01, ~misfit~ wrote:
Once upon a time on usenet Brian Gaff wrote:
Not sure how one would get to the drive units on the dentons, they
seem to be sealed from what I can see.


The Denton 2 drivers can be removed from the front of the baffle
after removing the covers. They're flush-mounted with the front and
the woofers have four little 'L' clips that the screws go through
which push against the edge of the driver holding it in place.

I'm not sure how to remove the old brown glue from the surrounds (it
let go of the aluminium) and then what glue to use to replace it.
They sound a but mellow for my tastes anyway so they'll likely get
sold as-is - that's if I can find a buyer.




  #18 (permalink)  
Old April 14th 18, 05:11 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Iain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Silly design of speaker.

lauantai 14. huhtikuuta 2018 13.13.25 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:
Once upon a time on usenet RJH wrote:
I think the OP meant the covers? IIRC they're a tight fit wooden frame
that fits in a cabinet recess. IIRC ;-)


My Denton 2s may be different to his. I slip a butter knife between the
fabric and the edge, away from a driver and gently lever them out. They sit
on four post and socket retainers.
--

Yes, post a socket is a favoured way to mount speaker front surrounds.
Both JBL and B+W do it that way. I use a wide palette knife ot take off
the panel.

Iain
  #19 (permalink)  
Old April 16th 18, 05:52 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
~misfit~[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 98
Default Silly design of speaker.

Once upon a time on usenet Iain wrote:
lauantai 14. huhtikuuta 2018 13.13.25 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:
Once upon a time on usenet RJH wrote:
I think the OP meant the covers? IIRC they're a tight fit wooden
frame that fits in a cabinet recess. IIRC ;-)


My Denton 2s may be different to his. I slip a butter knife between
the fabric and the edge, away from a driver and gently lever them
out. They sit on four post and socket retainers.
--

Yes, post a socket is a favoured way to mount speaker front surrounds.
Both JBL and B+W do it that way. I use a wide palette knife ot take
off the panel.


Yep that's what I used originally. However now I know where the drivers are
it's easier to grab a butter knife than a palette knife if I need to take
the fronts off.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy
little classification in the DSM*."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1)
(*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)


  #20 (permalink)  
Old April 16th 18, 09:05 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Iain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Silly design of speaker.

maanantai 16. huhtikuuta 2018 8.52.07 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:
Once upon a time on usenet Iain wrote:
lauantai 14. huhtikuuta 2018 13.13.25 UTC+3 ~misfit~ kirjoitti:
Once upon a time on usenet RJH wrote:
I think the OP meant the covers? IIRC they're a tight fit wooden
frame that fits in a cabinet recess. IIRC ;-)

My Denton 2s may be different to his. I slip a butter knife between
the fabric and the edge, away from a driver and gently lever them
out. They sit on four post and socket retainers.
--

Yes, post and socket is a favoured way to mount speaker front surrounds.
Both JBL and B+W do it that way. I use a wide palette knife ot take
off the panel.


Yep that's what I used originally. However now I know where the drivers are
it's easier to grab a butter knife than a palette knife if I need to take
the fronts off.
--


Understood.

I had my JBLs for nearly six months (on sale or return) before
I received an invoice for them. The front grilles needed to be replaced
and I was interested to listen with different materials, and with no front
cover at all, so I took them on and off frequently, (being especially
careful as they were not yet paid for). The sound with no front panels
was good, but a tad overbright.

It took me a while to find something suitable.

Iain
 




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