A mate brought his Arcam CD player (8 or 9, I think) round for a listen last
night, and (as expected) it showed up my cheapie Schneider DVD/CD wossname.
Much better clarity and definition, I thought. The bass especially was a
huge improvement.

Then I realised that the Schneider has digital outputs - coax and optical -
and wondered if it's feasible to connect a DAC to these and maybe approach
the sort of sound produced by the Arcam. A quick look in eBay indicates that
there's a fair selection up to about £200.

Is this worth considering, or will the transport in the Schneider have a
deletrious effect in spite of whatever improvements a DAC wold bring? It
strikes me that the cheapest DVD/CD drive can deliver error-free digital
data to a computer, so one would think that a cheap transport in a CD player
is capable of similar. If it is worth considering, what makes/models of DAC
should I look at that would match the Arcam's level of fidelity?


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

In article , Wally
wrote:
A mate brought his Arcam CD player (8 or 9, I think) round for a listen
last night, and (as expected) it showed up my cheapie Schneider DVD/CD
wossname. Much better clarity and definition, I thought. The bass
especially was a huge improvement.

Afraid I don't know anything about the DVD/CD player you have, so can't
really comment on it as such...

Then I realised that the Schneider has digital outputs - coax and
optical - and wondered if it's feasible to connect a DAC to these and
maybe approach the sort of sound produced by the Arcam. A quick look in
eBay indicates that there's a fair selection up to about £200.

Is this worth considering, or will the transport in the Schneider have a
deletrious effect in spite of whatever improvements a DAC wold bring?

Depends. :-)

If there is a serious problem with the transport, then it may be losing
data. Having a nicer DAC isn't likely to help with that.

However if the problem is that the DACs and following analogue circuits in
you player are poor, then an external DAC may improve things. Can't say for
sure as I don't know anything about your player.

FWIW I have a cheap DVD/VHS combo. I use this with a Meridian 263 DAC.
The results from the Meridian seem to me to be audibly much better than via
the DVD player's own analogue output. They also measure very differently,
with the Meridian having much lower levels of noise, hum, etc.

Hence you may find that an external DAC improves the sound, but it is hard
to predict this, so you'd have to try it to decide.

FWIW I'd recommend considering Meridian DACs like the 263 and 563. These
sound fine to me, and seem to work very well in my experience with a wide
range of sources. However they are stereo only, so not suitable if you
require multichannel surround sound from DVD's.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Wally
wrote:
A mate brought his Arcam CD player (8 or 9, I think) round for a listen
last night, and (as expected) it showed up my cheapie Schneider DVD/CD
wossname. Much better clarity and definition, I thought. The bass
especially was a huge improvement.

Afraid I don't know anything about the DVD/CD player you have, so can't
really comment on it as such...

Then I realised that the Schneider has digital outputs - coax and
optical - and wondered if it's feasible to connect a DAC to these and
maybe approach the sort of sound produced by the Arcam. A quick look in
eBay indicates that there's a fair selection up to about £200.

Is this worth considering, or will the transport in the Schneider have a
deletrious effect in spite of whatever improvements a DAC wold bring?

Depends. :-)

If there is a serious problem with the transport, then it may be losing
data. Having a nicer DAC isn't likely to help with that.

However if the problem is that the DACs and following analogue circuits in
you player are poor, then an external DAC may improve things. Can't say for
sure as I don't know anything about your player.

FWIW I have a cheap DVD/VHS combo. I use this with a Meridian 263 DAC.
The results from the Meridian seem to me to be audibly much better than via
the DVD player's own analogue output. They also measure very differently,
with the Meridian having much lower levels of noise, hum, etc.

Hence you may find that an external DAC improves the sound, but it is hard
to predict this, so you'd have to try it to decide.

FWIW I'd recommend considering Meridian DACs like the 263 and 563. These
sound fine to me, and seem to work very well in my experience with a wide
range of sources. However they are stereo only, so not suitable if you
require multichannel surround sound from DVD's.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:38:26 GMT, Wally wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound just as
good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player with the same
DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard and coldn't display
the CD logo.

A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I disagree, at
least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my hifi, I would have
preffered if none of them came with DACs so I could put the saving into
one really.


A mate brought his Arcam CD player (8 or 9, I think) round for a listen
last
night, and (as expected) it showed up my cheapie Schneider DVD/CD
wossname.
Much better clarity and definition, I thought. The bass especially was a
huge improvement.

Then I realised that the Schneider has digital outputs - coax and
optical -
and wondered if it's feasible to connect a DAC to these and maybe
approach
the sort of sound produced by the Arcam. A quick look in eBay indicates
that
there's a fair selection up to about £200.

Is this worth considering, or will the transport in the Schneider have a
deletrious effect in spite of whatever improvements a DAC wold bring? It
strikes me that the cheapest DVD/CD drive can deliver error-free digital
data to a computer, so one would think that a cheap transport in a CD
player
is capable of similar. If it is worth considering, what makes/models of
DAC
should I look at that would match the Arcam's level of fidelity?


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)






--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:38:26 GMT, Wally wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound just as
good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player with the same
DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard and coldn't display
the CD logo.

A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I disagree, at
least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my hifi, I would have
preffered if none of them came with DACs so I could put the saving into
one really.


A mate brought his Arcam CD player (8 or 9, I think) round for a listen
last
night, and (as expected) it showed up my cheapie Schneider DVD/CD
wossname.
Much better clarity and definition, I thought. The bass especially was a
huge improvement.

Then I realised that the Schneider has digital outputs - coax and
optical -
and wondered if it's feasible to connect a DAC to these and maybe
approach
the sort of sound produced by the Arcam. A quick look in eBay indicates
that
there's a fair selection up to about £200.

Is this worth considering, or will the transport in the Schneider have a
deletrious effect in spite of whatever improvements a DAC wold bring? It
strikes me that the cheapest DVD/CD drive can deliver error-free digital
data to a computer, so one would think that a cheap transport in a CD
player
is capable of similar. If it is worth considering, what makes/models of
DAC
should I look at that would match the Arcam's level of fidelity?


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)






--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

"Jim H" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:38:26 GMT, Wally wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound just as
good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player with the same
DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard and coldn't display
the CD logo.

A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I disagree, at
least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my hifi, I would have
preffered if none of them came with DACs so I could put the saving into
one really.


A mate brought his Arcam CD player (8 or 9, I think) round for a listen
last
night, and (as expected) it showed up my cheapie Schneider DVD/CD
wossname.
Much better clarity and definition, I thought. The bass especially was a
huge improvement.

Then I realised that the Schneider has digital outputs - coax and
optical -
and wondered if it's feasible to connect a DAC to these and maybe
approach
the sort of sound produced by the Arcam. A quick look in eBay indicates
that
there's a fair selection up to about £200.

Is this worth considering, or will the transport in the Schneider have a
deletrious effect in spite of whatever improvements a DAC wold bring? It
strikes me that the cheapest DVD/CD drive can deliver error-free digital
data to a computer, so one would think that a cheap transport in a CD
player
is capable of similar. If it is worth considering, what makes/models of
DAC
should I look at that would match the Arcam's level of fidelity?

In fact, my choice would be to look for an Arcam Black Box 500 which you
should be able to pick up for £200. Leaving aside the flexible connectivity
(which you might never use) it sounds bloody marvellous. I use it with DAB &
MD and soon Freeview, although not with CD (prefer the sound of the 8000CD's
in-built DAC, but that wont really be an issue for you). I would also keep
an eye out for the Alchemist TS-D1 or TS-D2. The latter, in particular, was
a terrific upgrade and they are both quite compact.

"Jim H" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 13:38:26 GMT, Wally wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound just as
good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player with the same
DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard and coldn't display
the CD logo.

A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I disagree, at
least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my hifi, I would have
preffered if none of them came with DACs so I could put the saving into
one really.


A mate brought his Arcam CD player (8 or 9, I think) round for a listen
last
night, and (as expected) it showed up my cheapie Schneider DVD/CD
wossname.
Much better clarity and definition, I thought. The bass especially was a
huge improvement.

Then I realised that the Schneider has digital outputs - coax and
optical -
and wondered if it's feasible to connect a DAC to these and maybe
approach
the sort of sound produced by the Arcam. A quick look in eBay indicates
that
there's a fair selection up to about £200.

Is this worth considering, or will the transport in the Schneider have a
deletrious effect in spite of whatever improvements a DAC wold bring? It
strikes me that the cheapest DVD/CD drive can deliver error-free digital
data to a computer, so one would think that a cheap transport in a CD
player
is capable of similar. If it is worth considering, what makes/models of
DAC
should I look at that would match the Arcam's level of fidelity?

In fact, my choice would be to look for an Arcam Black Box 500 which you
should be able to pick up for £200. Leaving aside the flexible connectivity
(which you might never use) it sounds bloody marvellous. I use it with DAB &
MD and soon Freeview, although not with CD (prefer the sound of the 8000CD's
in-built DAC, but that wont really be an issue for you). I would also keep
an eye out for the Alchemist TS-D1 or TS-D2. The latter, in particular, was
a terrific upgrade and they are both quite compact.

Jim H wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound
just as good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player
with the same DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard
and coldn't display the CD logo.

This is good to hear. Would I be right in thinking that an optical input
makes a given DAC more expensive? Are there sonic reasons to choose one
connection type over the other?


A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I
disagree, at least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my
hifi, I would have preffered if none of them came with DACs so I
could put the saving into one really.

I was quite surprised at the range on eBay going for what looked liked very
sensible money (looked at the completed items to get an idea of final
prices).


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

Jim H wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound
just as good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player
with the same DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard
and coldn't display the CD logo.

This is good to hear. Would I be right in thinking that an optical input
makes a given DAC more expensive? Are there sonic reasons to choose one
connection type over the other?


A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I
disagree, at least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my
hifi, I would have preffered if none of them came with DACs so I
could put the saving into one really.

I was quite surprised at the range on eBay going for what looked liked very
sensible money (looked at the completed items to get an idea of final
prices).


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:34:29 GMT, Wally wrote:

Jim H wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound
just as good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player
with the same DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard
and coldn't display the CD logo.

I suppose when I said this I should have mentioned jitter, however it's
very unlikely to be a problem with a half decent DAC, we're talking very
low data rates here.

People who spend tens of thousands on 'high-end' stuff like to buy
equipment that makes jitter audiable, so that their expensive CD player
sounds different than a cheap one and they can feel superior. A well
designed DAC should not do this.

This is good to hear. Would I be right in thinking that an optical input
makes a given DAC more expensive? Are there sonic reasons to choose one
connection type over the other?

Not really. Go for whatever is most convenient, most likely coax.
Cable worshipers may disagree, but round here interconnects are a way of
getting signal from A to B, there are those who claim different metals or
optical fibers in digital interconnects change the sound
:-D

A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I
disagree, at least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my
hifi, I would have preffered if none of them came with DACs so I
could put the saving into one really.

Btw, I ment to type "really good DAC"

I was quite surprised at the range on eBay going for what looked liked
very
sensible money (looked at the completed items to get an idea of final
prices).

Indeed. Get a few reviews, avoid the idiot high end and you'll be fine.

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org