Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

In article , Wally
wrote:
Following the recent thread about adding a DAC to my Schneider DVD
player, I went ahead and purchased a used Meridian 203 when it was
offered by a subscriber here. It arrived this morning and it's been
playing all day...

[snip]

I found that using a coax cable resulted in a little 'tick' noise when
skipping tracks. It would happen right at the start of a track. I tried
an optical interconnect and it stopped happening. I presume this is down
to some sort of interference, but can't really say what's causing it. I
note that the Lock light on the DAC goes out between each track, which I
gather has something to do with the player not sending timing
information unless it's actually playing music, so it might be related
to that.

It is unlikely to be interference. The comments you make about the 'lock'
light going off when you skip tracks implies that the signal stream from
the deck is being interrupted in some way. This will cause the DAC to lose
lock and have to regain it when the deck starts sending again. The source
may differ in how it outputs signals during the re-start transient via
co-ax and optical links, and this may explain the 'tick'. However its not
an effect I've encountered using coax inputs to either a 263 or 563 dac.
The players I use seem to leave the output 'on' during track skipping, etc,
so allowing the dac to remain locked.


My feeling is that the differences between the Merdian DAC and the Arcam
player are slight, and that the difference between both of them and the
Schneider is pretty big.

This is in line with what I would have hoped. My own view is that the
'better' the dac, the more closely it is recovering the waveforms specified
by the information on the CD/DVD. Thus 'better' dacs should sound similar
since they are all trying to reconstuct the same pattern from a given
CD/DVD.

[snip]

With the arrival of the 203, I don't think I'll be going shopping for an
Arcam any time soon, if at all. In fact, the 400 quid I didn't spend
(and don't have!) would probably be better spent on some mods to the
speakers (current semi-plan is isobaric subs and reboxed mid & high,
possibly bi-amped).

Buy electrostatics. 8-]

My own view/experience is that loudspeakers and room acoustics are where
you can usually make the biggest improvements to the results once you have
a decent source/amp.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

It's a feature that has pretty well fallen out of fashion these days.
It reverses the phase of the output, so that you can correct for
absolute phase, i.e. when the kick drum skin punches towards you, the
speaker cone does the same. There was a big fuss about this in the
early '90s, but it's now generally agreed that there's no audible
difference.

Ah, I see. How does one tell if one's absolute phase is correct?


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

It's a feature that has pretty well fallen out of fashion these days.
It reverses the phase of the output, so that you can correct for
absolute phase, i.e. when the kick drum skin punches towards you, the
speaker cone does the same. There was a big fuss about this in the
early '90s, but it's now generally agreed that there's no audible
difference.

Ah, I see. How does one tell if one's absolute phase is correct?


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

It is unlikely to be interference. The comments you make about the
'lock' light going off when you skip tracks implies that the signal
stream from the deck is being interrupted in some way. This will
cause the DAC to lose lock and have to regain it when the deck starts
sending again.

Yup.

The source may differ in how it outputs signals during
the re-start transient via co-ax and optical links, and this may
explain the 'tick'.

I had wondered if it might be that, but kinda discounted it, thinking that
they both handle the same data stream - maybe they do but the circuitry for
each signal behaves differently (ie, coax output is flawed).


... However its not an effect I've encountered using
coax inputs to either a 263 or 563 dac. The players I use seem to
leave the output 'on' during track skipping, etc, so allowing the dac
to remain locked.

If I can blame it on the source, then I can live with that.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

It is unlikely to be interference. The comments you make about the
'lock' light going off when you skip tracks implies that the signal
stream from the deck is being interrupted in some way. This will
cause the DAC to lose lock and have to regain it when the deck starts
sending again.

Yup.

The source may differ in how it outputs signals during
the re-start transient via co-ax and optical links, and this may
explain the 'tick'.

I had wondered if it might be that, but kinda discounted it, thinking that
they both handle the same data stream - maybe they do but the circuitry for
each signal behaves differently (ie, coax output is flawed).


... However its not an effect I've encountered using
coax inputs to either a 263 or 563 dac. The players I use seem to
leave the output 'on' during track skipping, etc, so allowing the dac
to remain locked.

If I can blame it on the source, then I can live with that.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Keith G wrote:

Oops! Teaching my grannie to suck eggs here........!! :-)

I don't claim expertise, just possession. :-) I'd always wanted one, partly
for the hell of it, partly curiosity. I tend to think that, if it's a decent
spec, it'll probably sound okay.


Hmmm, there's a school of thought that reckons speaker boxes with a
few holes and splits in 'em can sound pretty good.

If they're part of the design, they might be okay, but I don't think it
counts if it's a cab that's shaking itself to bits. :-)


(In fact there are
some nutters who also like a few holes in their bass cones!) ...

I hesitate to wonder how that can make an improvement.


... - I had
a pair of old Sabres that that had a few seams opening up and they
sounded great. I filled them with Plastic Padding though and then
went and blew 'em up with a 50wpc Class A valve amp and a bit too
much 'welly'! (Perhaps I should of left 'em alone......!!)

Nah, openING up is a changing of state - they might have sounded good at the
time, but they may well have deteriorated. Too many watts is a different
issue...


The idea of separate enclosures for bass and mid drivers with a nice
little separate 50 kHz tweeter sitting on top is one that has
interested me for a while now. (Won't go anywhere though - no budget
for such foolishness atm.... :-)

It depends on what you're starting from - if you can reuse your existing
drivers (or have spares), then the budget is little more than wood.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Keith G wrote:

Oops! Teaching my grannie to suck eggs here........!! :-)

I don't claim expertise, just possession. :-) I'd always wanted one, partly
for the hell of it, partly curiosity. I tend to think that, if it's a decent
spec, it'll probably sound okay.


Hmmm, there's a school of thought that reckons speaker boxes with a
few holes and splits in 'em can sound pretty good.

If they're part of the design, they might be okay, but I don't think it
counts if it's a cab that's shaking itself to bits. :-)


(In fact there are
some nutters who also like a few holes in their bass cones!) ...

I hesitate to wonder how that can make an improvement.


... - I had
a pair of old Sabres that that had a few seams opening up and they
sounded great. I filled them with Plastic Padding though and then
went and blew 'em up with a 50wpc Class A valve amp and a bit too
much 'welly'! (Perhaps I should of left 'em alone......!!)

Nah, openING up is a changing of state - they might have sounded good at the
time, but they may well have deteriorated. Too many watts is a different
issue...


The idea of separate enclosures for bass and mid drivers with a nice
little separate 50 kHz tweeter sitting on top is one that has
interested me for a while now. (Won't go anywhere though - no budget
for such foolishness atm.... :-)

It depends on what you're starting from - if you can reuse your existing
drivers (or have spares), then the budget is little more than wood.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

In article , Wally
wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

It's a feature that has pretty well fallen out of fashion these days.
It reverses the phase of the output, so that you can correct for
absolute phase, i.e. when the kick drum skin punches towards you, the
speaker cone does the same. There was a big fuss about this in the
early '90s, but it's now generally agreed that there's no audible
difference.

Ah, I see. How does one tell if one's absolute phase is correct?


Method A) Experiment and compare the two settings. If you can tell the
difference between phases, choose the one you prefer. If you can't tell the
difference, it doesn't matter. :-)

Method B) Check the units in your system to see if they end up 'inverting'
the signal, then consider which setting might be best for ensuring your
system is non-inverting (including the speakers, of course).

Of course, in each case you have no idea *what* the studio, etc, did to the
signal before it arrived in your home, and there is a good chance that some
instruments, etc, were 'inverted' some of the time whilst others were not.
Hence you might decide it is just another button to play with. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

In article , Wally
wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

It's a feature that has pretty well fallen out of fashion these days.
It reverses the phase of the output, so that you can correct for
absolute phase, i.e. when the kick drum skin punches towards you, the
speaker cone does the same. There was a big fuss about this in the
early '90s, but it's now generally agreed that there's no audible
difference.

Ah, I see. How does one tell if one's absolute phase is correct?


Method A) Experiment and compare the two settings. If you can tell the
difference between phases, choose the one you prefer. If you can't tell the
difference, it doesn't matter. :-)

Method B) Check the units in your system to see if they end up 'inverting'
the signal, then consider which setting might be best for ensuring your
system is non-inverting (including the speakers, of course).

Of course, in each case you have no idea *what* the studio, etc, did to the
signal before it arrived in your home, and there is a good chance that some
instruments, etc, were 'inverted' some of the time whilst others were not.
Hence you might decide it is just another button to play with. ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

My feeling is that the differences between the Merdian DAC and the
Arcam player are slight, and that the difference between both of
them and the Schneider is pretty big.

This is in line with what I would have hoped.

Yep, I kinda reckoned it would be close to the Arcam (or an Arcam-class
sound). I always knew that the Schneider was a stop-gap (bought because my
previous dsposable 30quid CD player packed in).


My own view is that the
'better' the dac, the more closely it is recovering the waveforms
specified by the information on the CD/DVD. Thus 'better' dacs should
sound similar since they are all trying to reconstuct the same
pattern from a given CD/DVD.

A bit like amplifiers, I suppose.


Buy electrostatics. 8-]

Aren't they rather big?


My own view/experience is that loudspeakers and room acoustics are
where you can usually make the biggest improvements to the results
once you have a decent source/amp.

I would agree with that. The speakers and room define most of the basic
character of the sound.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery