Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

In article , Ian Molton
wrote:
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:13:17 +0000 (GMT) Jim Lesurf
wrote:

If I put *four* ESL63's in the living room we'd have no space left to
sit there in between them!

does anyone make 'mini ESL's ?

That may be set to become an interesting area.... :-)

Some years ago I had a conversation with Ross Walker on a train. At the
time they were toying with the idea of making smaller ESLs that people
could then use a bit like 'building blocks' to make a larger array if they
wished. They were very aware of the 'entry cost' in terms of price and size
of the ESL63 which clearly limited the market.

I think that PJ was not very keen on the idea, and it wasn't really thought
'necessary' at the time. However with surround sound with a sub now
becoming common I would not be surprised to see it resurrected.

As fortune would have it, I was reading "QUAD: The closest approach" when I
learned about PJW's death. Interesting to see in there some coverage of
"Peter's Balls" as well as some speculative mentions of future speakers.

I don't know Quad's views as I have no contact with them these days.
However it would not surprise me to find that home cinema and surround
systems prompt them to revisit the idea of smaller ESLs to be sold in sets
of four or more. Their recent forays into conventional speakers imply they
would have no difficulty doing a matching sub...

Certainly, if they made smaller units for the surround and center that went
with 63's or their current speakers, I'd be very interested. Trying to use
non-ESL's to partner ESLs is a nightmare as the ESLs are so different to
conventional speakers.

Slainte,

Jim

--
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Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:12:56 +0000, Glenn Booth
wrote:

I tried to find Maggies in the UK a while back, and couldn't find a
distributor. If anyone knows of an importer, I'd be really interested.
My last quest for speakers drew a blank; I guess I'm looking for planar
type sound without the required ESL budget (or space for that matter).

Sorry, but it's simply not possible to achieve the sound of a large
planar speaker without using a large planar speaker in a large room.
Perhaps there should be a 'duh' in there somewhere..... :-)

What I've read about the Magnepan products makes me think they might fit
the bill, but I can't get to hear them.

They are very good, but also listen to the latest 'compact'
Martin-Logan hybrids, which don't take up as much room space as
full-range planars, but give you all the midrange magic.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:12:56 +0000, Glenn Booth
wrote:

I tried to find Maggies in the UK a while back, and couldn't find a
distributor. If anyone knows of an importer, I'd be really interested.
My last quest for speakers drew a blank; I guess I'm looking for planar
type sound without the required ESL budget (or space for that matter).

Sorry, but it's simply not possible to achieve the sound of a large
planar speaker without using a large planar speaker in a large room.
Perhaps there should be a 'duh' in there somewhere..... :-)

What I've read about the Magnepan products makes me think they might fit
the bill, but I can't get to hear them.

They are very good, but also listen to the latest 'compact'
Martin-Logan hybrids, which don't take up as much room space as
full-range planars, but give you all the midrange magic.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

You will see various recipies for this. My own experience is that it
is very variable. Generally good to have speakers away from walls,
and the listening position away from walls. For good stereo, a more
symmetric arrangement can be desirable. Beyond that, it all becomes
dependent upon things like the directional behaviour of the speakers,
effects of room furnishings, etc. The best advice I can give is the
obvious, "be prepared to experiment". :-)

Which is a bit of a pain with the big boxes. I originally had them set up
along the long dimension, but didn't like the room layout and the
distinction of left and right was poor. They fire across the width now,
which sounds better, but I think the positioning could still improve. The
long term plan is to rebox the mid/top into LS3/5a size cabs, which should
make it easier to experiment with positioning - I could move the big boxes
around, but they'd get in the way wherever they were put. Little cabs on
stands would take up less floor and be easier to walk around or shift to a
better position for serious listening.


In general, firing along the longer dimension tends to give more
scope for having space behind the listening position. However factors
like the above and how the speaker's resonances relate to those of
the room have an effect.

Having just demonstrated to myself that there's a dip in the low bass, I
feel that I need to address that before I look at the room. Don't know where
things are at with resonances at higher frequencies, but a planned change
will be a smaller baffle area compared with the big panel that the present
boxes have.


In my case the TV sound is the S/PDIF coaxial output from a Nokia 221T
digital terrestrial TV receiver, into the Meridian 263 DAC.

No digital out on the Telewest box, unfortunately. It has scart, so I'll
give this a go sometime.


FWIW I just made up a small box with a cheap switch to allow me to
have a switchable input for the DAC. This means I can choose either the
output from the DVD player or from the Nokia. I made no attempt to
ensure the switchbox was 75 Ohm as I don't think this matters
much for domestic S/PDIF. The cables are CT100, though, and
nominally 75 Ohms.

I'll keep that in mind, although I'm using the optical input at the moment.


I have large speakers *and* clutter. :-)

Snap. :-)

The good thing about clutter behind an ESL is that it helps to break
up the reflection from the rear radiation. ;-

Piles of cushions? :-)


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

You will see various recipies for this. My own experience is that it
is very variable. Generally good to have speakers away from walls,
and the listening position away from walls. For good stereo, a more
symmetric arrangement can be desirable. Beyond that, it all becomes
dependent upon things like the directional behaviour of the speakers,
effects of room furnishings, etc. The best advice I can give is the
obvious, "be prepared to experiment". :-)

Which is a bit of a pain with the big boxes. I originally had them set up
along the long dimension, but didn't like the room layout and the
distinction of left and right was poor. They fire across the width now,
which sounds better, but I think the positioning could still improve. The
long term plan is to rebox the mid/top into LS3/5a size cabs, which should
make it easier to experiment with positioning - I could move the big boxes
around, but they'd get in the way wherever they were put. Little cabs on
stands would take up less floor and be easier to walk around or shift to a
better position for serious listening.


In general, firing along the longer dimension tends to give more
scope for having space behind the listening position. However factors
like the above and how the speaker's resonances relate to those of
the room have an effect.

Having just demonstrated to myself that there's a dip in the low bass, I
feel that I need to address that before I look at the room. Don't know where
things are at with resonances at higher frequencies, but a planned change
will be a smaller baffle area compared with the big panel that the present
boxes have.


In my case the TV sound is the S/PDIF coaxial output from a Nokia 221T
digital terrestrial TV receiver, into the Meridian 263 DAC.

No digital out on the Telewest box, unfortunately. It has scart, so I'll
give this a go sometime.


FWIW I just made up a small box with a cheap switch to allow me to
have a switchable input for the DAC. This means I can choose either the
output from the DVD player or from the Nokia. I made no attempt to
ensure the switchbox was 75 Ohm as I don't think this matters
much for domestic S/PDIF. The cables are CT100, though, and
nominally 75 Ohms.

I'll keep that in mind, although I'm using the optical input at the moment.


I have large speakers *and* clutter. :-)

Snap. :-)

The good thing about clutter behind an ESL is that it helps to break
up the reflection from the rear radiation. ;-

Piles of cushions? :-)


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest addition: Early Works gallery

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:58:10 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Despite the superbly musical sound of the Duettas, I'm becoming
persuaded that multi-channel is the way forward.

Welcome. I still miss my Duettas at times but MCH is way too
exciting.

Kal

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 08:58:10 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

Despite the superbly musical sound of the Duettas, I'm becoming
persuaded that multi-channel is the way forward.

Welcome. I still miss my Duettas at times but MCH is way too
exciting.

Kal

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:15:20 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:12:56 +0000, Glenn Booth
wrote:

I tried to find Maggies in the UK a while back, and couldn't find a
distributor. If anyone knows of an importer, I'd be really interested.
My last quest for speakers drew a blank; I guess I'm looking for planar
type sound without the required ESL budget (or space for that matter).

Sorry, but it's simply not possible to achieve the sound of a large
planar speaker without using a large planar speaker in a large room.
Perhaps there should be a 'duh' in there somewhere..... :-)

Certainly for stereo or for the front channels in MCH. OTOH, the
smaller Maggies (MGMC1?) are bracket-mounted and gain front the
boundary proximity. With the right wall setting, they go down to
nearly 80Hz and occupy no floor space at all. I am using them now as
rear channels with more conventional speakers up front but I would
think they might be a dandy complement to bigger dipoles up front.

Kal

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 10:15:20 +0000 (UTC),
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 09:12:56 +0000, Glenn Booth
wrote:

I tried to find Maggies in the UK a while back, and couldn't find a
distributor. If anyone knows of an importer, I'd be really interested.
My last quest for speakers drew a blank; I guess I'm looking for planar
type sound without the required ESL budget (or space for that matter).

Sorry, but it's simply not possible to achieve the sound of a large
planar speaker without using a large planar speaker in a large room.
Perhaps there should be a 'duh' in there somewhere..... :-)

Certainly for stereo or for the front channels in MCH. OTOH, the
smaller Maggies (MGMC1?) are bracket-mounted and gain front the
boundary proximity. With the right wall setting, they go down to
nearly 80Hz and occupy no floor space at all. I am using them now as
rear channels with more conventional speakers up front but I would
think they might be a dandy complement to bigger dipoles up front.

Kal

Added a DAC to a cheap CD player - and got a result
 

Got my SP/DIF opticlal lead today - 3M for only a fiver incl. delivery (20% off for chrimbo!)

I have to say... WOW.

I know theres some 'novelty factor' involved but its so small as to be insignificant - the difference is night and day!

Funny how you can get used to a sound and not realise what you are missing. Even using my crummy Rotel receiver with all-but-dried-up caps, my setup is just utterly changed.

The bass is 'punchier', and the treble actually exists! what a difference - now I need to replace all those 128kbit mp3s with 'sssssylablessss that have sssssesss in them'...

The midrange seems crisp and even too - how festive of it.

Oh yeah, and I can discern no difference whatsoever when I press the 'phase' button save for a brief faint click ;-)

I give the Arcam Delta Black Box 3 an A+ rating - clearly my best audio purchase this year, and I shall be keeping an eye out for other arcam bits, it was pretty nicely built, I thought.

I still dont know what the aux outputs are for, but my nforce2 seems unwilling to output 4 channels, so I guess I will never know ;-)

Orinoco flow sounds incredible - the bass is 'right up close and personal', and the treble gives a lovely image.

Oh yeah... and Quake3 sounds rather nice too ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.