"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Pooh Bear" wrote in
message ...
Clyde Slick wrote:

Krueger 'the idiot' can't follow a thread.
Half the time he doesn't even know who's talking.

He's a lot smarter than you sonny !

For starters, he actually knows some things about the science of
electronics and how it relates to audio.


Anybody got some Krueger basement pictures to show this guy?

There are no such things.

However, there is this:

http://www.provide.net/~djcarlst/atos_abk.gif

I'm bedazzled by the number of ppl ( inc luding you ) posting
personal insults as if they were valid arguments.

Krueger has a history of having insulted some of the
best minds in the business.

Not hardly! Your *best minds* were some of the lamest well-known
losers in the business, particularly after you lobotomized them.

I find it comical.

You are comical, Middius.

However, I'm Slick.

No, you've called yourself Slick. Slick isn't your real name.


nor is Middius my real name.

Have you talked to a good neurologist lately?

Don't think I know any, socially.


you ought to consult with one. you get confused too easily.

Clyde Slick wrote:

Krueger has a history of having insulted some of the
best minds in the business

Which best minds are you referring to ?


Graham

"Pooh Bear" wrote in message

Clyde Slick wrote:

Krueger has a history of having insulted some of the
best minds in the business

Which best minds are you referring to ?

People he worships, like John Atkinson.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 21:51:07 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:


Arny Krueger wrote:

We did some investigations of high end CD/DVD players a few weeks ago, and
found that common high end practice seems to be to assemble the drive and
circuit boards from mid-fi machines into a nice looking case, maybe add a
gratuitous output buffer board, jack the price up by a factor of about 20,
and let the fun begin.

Sounds about right to me.

Except he claimed 50 times back then.

Oh yeah, ask him if he's even seen in person the unit that he
"investigated", much less heard it.

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:12:33 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:52:56 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Arny Krueger
writes

We did some investigations of high end CD/DVD players a few weeks ago, and
found that common high end practice seems to be to assemble the drive and
circuit boards from mid-fi machines into a nice looking case, maybe add a
gratuitous output buffer board, jack the price up by a factor of about 20,
and let the fun begin.


Now that...I could believe!.......

You'd better believe it! Deep inside the beautiful alloy casing of the
Mark Levinson 'Reference' transport at some $15,000, you'll find
exactly the same Philips industrial transport mech (and associated
electronics) as is used in the jukebox at your local pub.......

No surprise there then !

Wasn't there a better transport available ?

No, that *is* the best available transport (now that Sony have stopped
making the CDM-14). Costs all of $60 in OEM quantity, complete with
it's electronics pack.

At least my old Denon DCD-1700 has a transport that feels of 'battleship
quality'.

Actually no, that's just the loader, which has no function once the
disc starts to spin. You never see the actual transport, except in
some top loaders and a couple of Naims. And for the older nitpickers,
the Meridian 200 series.

In fact the entire player is built like that. Unlike many modern CD
players that you could pick up with your little finger, this is one that
actually inspires confidence due to its sheer weight !

Such confidence is however misplaced, as a really good transport must
have extremely low-mass moving parts - CDs do *not* spin at a constant
rate, so the rules are diametrically opposed to those for LP. Those
'high end' belt-drive transports are particularly hilarious!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 01:00:59 +0200, Sander deWaal
wrote:

Pooh Bear said:

You'd better believe it! Deep inside the beautiful alloy casing of the
Mark Levinson 'Reference' transport at some $15,000, you'll find
exactly the same Philips industrial transport mech (and associated
electronics) as is used in the jukebox at your local pub.......

No surprise there then !

Wasn't there a better transport available ?

What's wrong with the Philips CD12 or their later reincarnations?
It's a teriffic mechanism. Arcam and many other good players use them
as well.

To be fair, Arcam only use Philips now because Sony stopped making the
CDM-14 'Fine Drive' mechanism.

For audio use, I prefer the TEAC VRDS or Pioneer stable platter
mechanism, though. But that's because I'm a DIY-er who always looks
for things to improve. :-)

Some would say that the best TEAC VRDS transport was the state of the
art, others would argue that for actual reading performance, which is
what really matters, the high-speed CD-ROM drives used by Meridian are
the best, even if they do 'look and feel' a little cheesy.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 01:01:24 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:


I have to confess that I'm slightly biased against Philips *mechanisms*.

Going *way back* Philips have engineered very mechanically weak products that
simply break very easily.

I dare say that they may have learnt their lesson but I would like to see evidence
of same !

Going, as you say, *way* back, Philips made probably the best
dedicated CD transport mechanism ever built - the all-alloy CDM9-Pro.
I have never heard of one of those failing, and IIRC Naim liked it so
much that when they heard that it was going out of production, they
bought up the entire stock.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In message , Stewart
Pinkerton writes
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:12:33 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:52:56 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Arny Krueger
writes

We did some investigations of high end CD/DVD players a few weeks ago, and
found that common high end practice seems to be to assemble the drive and
circuit boards from mid-fi machines into a nice looking case, maybe add a
gratuitous output buffer board, jack the price up by a factor of about 20,
and let the fun begin.


Now that...I could believe!.......

You'd better believe it! Deep inside the beautiful alloy casing of the
Mark Levinson 'Reference' transport at some $15,000, you'll find
exactly the same Philips industrial transport mech (and associated
electronics) as is used in the jukebox at your local pub.......

No surprise there then !

Wasn't there a better transport available ?

No, that *is* the best available transport (now that Sony have stopped
making the CDM-14). Costs all of $60 in OEM quantity, complete with
it's electronics pack.

At least my old Denon DCD-1700 has a transport that feels of 'battleship
quality'.

Actually no, that's just the loader, which has no function once the
disc starts to spin. You never see the actual transport, except in
some top loaders and a couple of Naims. And for the older nitpickers,
the Meridian 200 series.

In fact the entire player is built like that. Unlike many modern CD
players that you could pick up with your little finger, this is one that
actually inspires confidence due to its sheer weight !

Such confidence is however misplaced, as a really good transport must
have extremely low-mass moving parts - CDs do *not* spin at a constant
rate, so the rules are diametrically opposed to those for LP. Those
'high end' belt-drive transports are particularly hilarious!

But there'd be nothing to stop a CD drive spinning at a constant rate,
(provided it was high enough), and FIFO buffering the audio. There's
nothing to stop a maker reading the audio in high speed 'packet' bursts.
--
Chris Morriss

Hi,

In message , Chris Morriss
writes

But there'd be nothing to stop a CD drive spinning at a constant rate,
(provided it was high enough), and FIFO buffering the audio. There's
nothing to stop a maker reading the audio in high speed 'packet' bursts.

With the price of RAM as it is, that might just happen - pop the CD in,
and while it's playing the first few minutes it could buffer all the
rest to memory. It's like a glorified version of what happens anyway,
just with a much bigger buffer.

Maybe that's not such a good idea, though. It might start a whole new
high-end argument about what type of RAM sounds best :-)

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 17:12:16 +0100, Chris Morriss
wrote:

In message , Stewart
Pinkerton writes
On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 23:12:33 +0100, Pooh Bear
wrote:

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 16:52:56 +0100, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Arny Krueger
writes

We did some investigations of high end CD/DVD players a few weeks ago, and
found that common high end practice seems to be to assemble the drive and
circuit boards from mid-fi machines into a nice looking case, maybe add a
gratuitous output buffer board, jack the price up by a factor of about 20,
and let the fun begin.


Now that...I could believe!.......

You'd better believe it! Deep inside the beautiful alloy casing of the
Mark Levinson 'Reference' transport at some $15,000, you'll find
exactly the same Philips industrial transport mech (and associated
electronics) as is used in the jukebox at your local pub.......

No surprise there then !

Wasn't there a better transport available ?

No, that *is* the best available transport (now that Sony have stopped
making the CDM-14). Costs all of $60 in OEM quantity, complete with
it's electronics pack.

At least my old Denon DCD-1700 has a transport that feels of 'battleship
quality'.

Actually no, that's just the loader, which has no function once the
disc starts to spin. You never see the actual transport, except in
some top loaders and a couple of Naims. And for the older nitpickers,
the Meridian 200 series.

In fact the entire player is built like that. Unlike many modern CD
players that you could pick up with your little finger, this is one that
actually inspires confidence due to its sheer weight !

Such confidence is however misplaced, as a really good transport must
have extremely low-mass moving parts - CDs do *not* spin at a constant
rate, so the rules are diametrically opposed to those for LP. Those
'high end' belt-drive transports are particularly hilarious!

But there'd be nothing to stop a CD drive spinning at a constant rate,
(provided it was high enough), and FIFO buffering the audio. There's
nothing to stop a maker reading the audio in high speed 'packet' bursts.

Indeed - but that's not actually how those pathetic drives work. They
are in fact a great example of how robust is the CD standard - they
work well *despite* their pathetically incompetent engineering! :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering