"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Heinz Kiosk" wrote in message


The issue of computers as audio front ends has been discussed here many
times.

Thank you for your input, which has been very straightforward. Sorry if you
are repeating a well-worn rut. It is new to me. I'll go and google the
archives some more...

Tom

"George M. Middius" wrote in message
...
OK, now that Arny seems to have learned that best approach in a UK
newsgroup
is *not* to try and batter retired MDs in their 50's around the head
with a
'figurative baseball bat', I would be the first to say he's probably the
best person here to advise on PC Audio matters (bar none) and will, no
doubt, set you straight.

As the Kroobeast is prone to say, that's an opinion you get to have.

So if you, or anybody, thinks Krooger has offered useful information,
my advice is to retain what you believe is useful, and not to correct
his omissions, misstatements, or deceptions. It's not worth it.


If you have a different opinion about my original question, but you don't
want to get into a public slanging match, please e-mail me privately.

Thank you.

Tom

Keith G said:

OK, now that Arny seems to have learned that best approach in a UK
newsgroup
is *not* to try and batter retired MDs in their 50's around the head
with a
'figurative baseball bat', I would be the first to say he's probably the
best person here to advise on PC Audio matters (bar none) and will, no
doubt, set you straight.

As the Kroobeast is prone to say, that's an opinion you get to have.

Regardless of which newsgroups a thread might inhabit, Krooger is a
compulsive liar. As soon as somebody offers the slightest disagreement
with anything he has posted, you can forget about the thread offering
further useful information. It will degenerate quickly into one of
Krooger's infamous "never admit error" last stands against logic.
There are a multitude of examples of this scenario littering the
Usenet archive.

So if you, or anybody, thinks Krooger has offered useful information,
my advice is to retain what you believe is useful, and not to correct
his omissions, misstatements, or deceptions. It's not worth it.

And your reply offered what valueable assistance to the OP?

I don't know the personalities here that well, but Arny's response seemed
logical and reasoned - he may not be right by your standards, but his
opinion - which was invited - was valid. I'd've respected a well-reasoned
counter-point, but an OT slagging just makes you look like a cock.

My, non-scientific, experience with PC hifi has been positive. These days I
spend more time listening to music at my desk then in front of my hifi and
so I have set up some rather OTT amplification and speakers (Alchemist
Kraken Pre Amp and 2 x bridged Kraken Power Amps under the desk).

The speakers are, in my opinion, a compromise in that they had to be
magnetically shielded, fit on the desk and blend in with the environment. I
tried LOADS of designs out specifically for this use and settled on a pair
of B&W VM1s. I don't know if I could've done better within the restaints
outlined, although I might change these to a pair of LS3/5as or Linn Katans
or Wharfedale Evo 10s (preferable choices if magnetic shielding and size
tolerances were increased as might be possible when I move my office
around - on the whole I work from home). I would like improved low-frequency
performance.

Most of the music is MP3-based and it is here that I note the biggest loss
(compared with listening to less-compressed CD through the PC's CD ROM
drive). It is certainly worth compressing at higher rates than the typically
accepted 128kb/s. 320 is essential IMO and, given that HD storage costs
about 40p/GB, this is a non-issue. Otherwise I'd say the weak-link is the
speakers, not the front-end.

Contrarily, on my "proper" hifi setup, I use an Audiolab 8000CD as my main
digital front end, which I bought having heard many options up to the £1k
mark. I listened to the common options at the time costing half the amount
(Marantz CD63KI Sig, Arcam Alpha 6 etc) and was very happy to spend the
extra, based solely on my own feelings of sound quality. If the bulbs didn't
keep failing in the LCD, it would be the perfect CD player (for me).

"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Contrarily, on my "proper" hifi setup, I use an Audiolab 8000CD as my main
digital front end, which I bought having heard many options up to the £1k
mark. I listened to the common options at the time costing half the amount
(Marantz CD63KI Sig, Arcam Alpha 6 etc) and was very happy to spend the
extra, based solely on my own feelings of sound quality. If the bulbs
didn't
keep failing in the LCD, it would be the perfect CD player (for me).


Have you ever tried the experiment of plugging your PC line output into your
"proper" amplifier? To get a meaningful comparison with the Audiolab you'd
have to rip the audition CDs uncompressed into the PC, I think, but that
only takes about 2 minutes per CD on my PC. When I bought the Denson about
5 years ago I auditioned it against a £500 player (Rega if I recall) and a
Naim that was also around £1000. In that audition the Denson won hands down.
But that audition wasn't in the comfort of my own home, and now I wonder if
other factors made the players sound different.

Tom

"Heinz Kiosk" wrote in message
...
"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Contrarily, on my "proper" hifi setup, I use an Audiolab 8000CD as my
main
digital front end, which I bought having heard many options up to the
£1k
mark. I listened to the common options at the time costing half the
amount
(Marantz CD63KI Sig, Arcam Alpha 6 etc) and was very happy to spend the
extra, based solely on my own feelings of sound quality. If the bulbs
didn't
keep failing in the LCD, it would be the perfect CD player (for me).


Have you ever tried the experiment of plugging your PC line output into
your
"proper" amplifier? To get a meaningful comparison with the Audiolab you'd
have to rip the audition CDs uncompressed into the PC, I think, but that
only takes about 2 minutes per CD on my PC.

Not with CD audio - I'll have to give it an A-B some time.
But not right now P

In article ,
"JustMe" wrote:

drive). It is certainly worth compressing at higher rates than the typically
accepted 128kb/s. 320 is essential IMO

How closely did you test this? Just curious.

With crappy PC speakers, 160kbps was noticeably better than 128; and
still a smidge under the CD. With real speakers, 192 was much less so,
but I found that VBR that *averaged* about 190 was indistinguishable
from the CD.

--
Matthew Weigel
the email address is real
the contents of the post are not

JustMe, YACA, said:

As the Kroobeast is prone to say, that's an opinion you get to have.

Regardless of which newsgroups a thread might inhabit, Krooger is a
compulsive liar. As soon as somebody offers the slightest disagreement
with anything he has posted, you can forget about the thread offering
further useful information. It will degenerate quickly into one of
Krooger's infamous "never admit error" last stands against logic.
There are a multitude of examples of this scenario littering the
Usenet archive.

So if you, or anybody, thinks Krooger has offered useful information,
my advice is to retain what you believe is useful, and not to correct
his omissions, misstatements, or deceptions. It's not worth it.

And your reply offered what valueable assistance to the OP?


If you have to ask, you have not yet experienced the grotesquerie of
the Krooborg.

"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Keith G said:

OK, now that Arny seems to have learned that best approach in a UK
newsgroup
is *not* to try and batter retired MDs in their 50's around the head
with a
'figurative baseball bat', I would be the first to say he's probably
the
best person here to advise on PC Audio matters (bar none) and will, no
doubt, set you straight.

As the Kroobeast is prone to say, that's an opinion you get to have.

Regardless of which newsgroups a thread might inhabit, Krooger is a
compulsive liar. As soon as somebody offers the slightest disagreement
with anything he has posted, you can forget about the thread offering
further useful information. It will degenerate quickly into one of
Krooger's infamous "never admit error" last stands against logic.
There are a multitude of examples of this scenario littering the
Usenet archive.

So if you, or anybody, thinks Krooger has offered useful information,
my advice is to retain what you believe is useful, and not to correct
his omissions, misstatements, or deceptions. It's not worth it.

And your reply offered what valueable assistance to the OP?

I don't know the personalities here that well, but Arny's response seemed
logical and reasoned - he may not be right by your standards, but his
opinion - which was invited - was valid. I'd've respected a well-reasoned
counter-point, but an OT slagging just makes you look like a cock.

I respect Mr. Krueger for his technical abilities and contributions to the
technical groups. I've even defended him on occasion. But over in
rec.audio.opinion, he's a different guy. Takes delight in tweaking some of
the people there, including Middius, and it's true he sometimes just won't
let something go. Like I said, he obviously just enjoys tweaking these
people. It can be humorous but it just goes on and on.
I quit RAO due to all the ad hominum attacks.

Mark Z.


snip

"Mark D. Zacharias" wrote in message


I respect Mr. Krueger for his technical abilities and contributions
to the technical groups. I've even defended him on occasion.

But over
in rec.audio.opinion, he's a different guy. Takes delight in tweaking
some of the people there, including Middius, and it's true he
sometimes just won't let something go.

My problem is that I go back to the days when RAO was a really pretty good
audio forum. That was before idiots like Zipser and Derrida started working
overtime to ruin the place for people with a serious audio interest. I think
that Middius was brought into the frey by Zippy.

Like I said, he obviously just enjoys tweaking these people.

And, I do it early and often. At one point there was a thread with well over
a thousand posts in just a few days, by them whining about how badly I
nailed them.

It can be humorous but it just goes on and on.

The average IQ of RAO participants really dropped after Middius got
involved.

I quit RAO due to all the ad hominum attacks.

I've always repected you Mark, and your judgements about RAO just make me
respect you more.

Mark D. Zacharias said:

I respect Mr. Krueger for his technical abilities and contributions to the
technical groups. I've even defended him on occasion. But over in
rec.audio.opinion, he's a different guy. Takes delight in tweaking some of
the people there, including Middius, and it's true he sometimes just won't
let something go. Like I said, he obviously just enjoys tweaking these
people. It can be humorous but it just goes on and on.

Better not let your other hero, the estimable Fecklebeans, hear you
glorifying "tweaking". You'll get thrown out of the Morons' Club.

I quit RAO due to all the ad hominum attacks.

I can only guess what you mean by "ad hominum". You've already shown
you love to distort language beyond recognition (using "tweaking" for
"lying"). Does it have anything to do with your mother?