"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 23:26:57 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote

snip

I remain surprised by just how good a well-mixed Dolby 2.0 track can
be, at generating ambience well outside the speaker plane.

What, like a valve amp....??

Yup - but with SS you can turn the effect *off* when not watching a
movie!


Wot, like go back to planar sound only? Why *on earth* would anybody want to
do that?



Until I get
a front projector,

If you're thinking DLP (incredible technology) wait for the the three
chip/prism models to come out and go down in price. (The wheel's been
'reinvented'....!! ;-)

I continue to wait, but at least it's dropped from the 150 grand of
the professional units, through the 60 grand of Runco to the 20 grand
or so of the latest offerings. Once it dips below ten, my flexible
friend will have to start getting really worried!


Until when there's there's always a selection of decent little Panasonics
LCDs at less than a grand on eBay:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...e=STRK:MEWA:IT


Much more than 'adequate' as a temporary measure - we're running a PT-AE100
and I don't think we'll be looking to upgrade it for a long time - excellent
80" picture which makes an absolute mockery of movies on the (28")
telly.....




I'm unlikely to go for a full 7.1 system, since I
find room-sized sound and a relatively tiny picture *very*
distracting, preventing as good involvement with the film as I get
from 2-channel.

Yep, it's a simple equation: Big picture = big sound, anything else is a
waste of time.....

Hey - something on which we agree! Hooda thunk... :-)


It had to happen (Law Of Averages), but it's only a coincidence - it doesn't
*mean* anything! ;-)

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:12:58 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:


Stewart Pinkerton wrote:


On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 14:13:44 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:



Stewart Pinkerton wrote:



This old warhorse gets dragged out regularly. I use insensitive 3-ohm
speakers, and while my Audiolab (and several other amps) sounds just
like the Krell, it gets *very* hot after half an hour or so at high
SPLs. Hence, the Krell is there because it drives the speakers with
ease, not because it sounds different.


so did you get the Krell or the Apogees first?
And what speakers were you using before the Apogees?


I got them at the same time, and Maggie 1Cs, which my older Audiolab
8000P drove quite happily.

Ah, so the Apogees were a significant improvement over the Maggies then?


Yes, a massive improvement, although to be fair, they were also *much*
more expensive. A better competitor would have been the Maggie IIIC,
with the classic ribbon tweeter. Comparing those two, I thought the
Apogee was sweeter and more coherent through the wide midband (where
most of the music lies), and had noticeably deeper bass. The high
treble of the Maggie however, remains as good as it gets.


and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?


I may be wrong, but I don't think it's that simple - I'm awaiting delivery
of a cheap sub (from the same outfit as the ch*nky amp :-) as I type. My
speakers go very low but I'm not happy that the amp is delivering the '.1'
stuff to them, especially as we don't use a centre speaker. I want a sub
just to pull these frequencies off (ie tell the amp there *is* a sub) - now,
is anybody going to tell me I've got that all screwed up??

"Mike Gilmour" wrote


Just like they used to make 'em here in the days of hand assembly. Buy all
you can from China because at this quality it'll go the way of Japan and
Korea i.e. not long prices rise,

*exactly* :-)


maybe then workers afforded a better standard of living.


I'm not sure that China (generally speaking) does have a low standard of
living - they are a BRIC member, after all. It's not the same as ours, but
one which I might swap for in some/many respects!!

(Do they have pie and mash restaurants in China? ;-)


Just been looking at my Sansui Model 2000 (earlyish Japanese days) and it
came with a full workshop manual packed with schematics, component id
photographs and a complete parts list down to the last nut & washer & a
comprehensive user manual.
.....sing along 'Those were the days my friend'


Certainly/absolutely, but it won't be long before some **** comes rushing up
to tell it's not *hi*fi or summat!!

;-)

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 14:03:44 +1000, Tat Chan
wrote:




and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?


The main panel resonance is at 30Hz, and they're flat to 25Hz,

well, that is lower than my 10 inch sub goes!

so I
don't feel the need for a sub. Organ music rattles the windows, and
you feel the 'heartbeat' in DSOM thumping your chest....

I have neighbours to think of here!




However, once I get the monster sub built, I'll certainly be seeing if
it can do anything for the main system, rather than just underpinning
movies.

You probably know this better than me, but a "monster sub" in the TV/lounge room
normally doesn't go well with the female half ...

Ian Molton wrote:

Tat Chan wrote:

and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?


Dunno about apogees but my Radfords manage some very comfortable bass
down to about 12-15 Hz. no real need for a sub here, although for films,
perhaps it might be nice.

The Radfords are transmission line speakers, right?
Still, 12 - 15 Hz is pretty low for speakers.

My sub only goes to 35Hz and manages to fill my listening room with a low rumble
when watching movies.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Tat Chan wrote:


Have heard good things about NICAM, and I have only just realised that
Oz uses German stereo and not NICAM (though my Sony TV supports NICAM).


Right. The UK was fairly late implementing stereo TV, so was able to take
advantage of digital techniques.


Later than Oz?
Who would have thought!



I use my TV speakers for the majority of shows I watch and find them
good enough for the task.


Thing is that few TVs have really decent built in speakers. The cost would
be prohibitive - as would the bulk. And TVs tend to need updating far more
frequently than a good sound system, so it makes economic sense to keep
them fairly separate.


well, I normally watch news, docos and some commercial TV shows on TV, and that
is good enough for me. When I put a DVD in, I use my stereo system.

Keith G wrote:

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...

and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?



I may be wrong, but I don't think it's that simple - I'm awaiting delivery
of a cheap sub (from the same outfit as the ch*nky amp :-) as I type. My
speakers go very low but I'm not happy that the amp is delivering the '.1'
stuff to them, especially as we don't use a centre speaker. I want a sub
just to pull these frequencies off (ie tell the amp there *is* a sub) - now,
is anybody going to tell me I've got that all screwed up??



I have a cheap 10 inch sub from a local electronics chain (UK equivalent would
be Maplins?) after reading good things about it from the Oz hi-fi newsgroup. At
£40, I couldn't go wrong! How's that for cheap?

And that sub is the only Chinese designed component of my otherwise
Anglo-Japanese stereo system ...

Keith G wrote:

"Mike Gilmour" wrote



Just like they used to make 'em here in the days of hand assembly. Buy all
you can from China because at this quality it'll go the way of Japan and
Korea i.e. not long prices rise,


*exactly* :-)



maybe then workers afforded a better standard of living.



I'm not sure that China (generally speaking) does have a low standard of
living - they are a BRIC member, after all. It's not the same as ours, but
one which I might swap for in some/many respects!!

(Do they have pie and mash restaurants in China? ;-)

I won't be surprised if they do, or will have soon! Only takes someone to
acquire a taste for it overseas and decide to start a chain of pie shops back in
China ...

(and it won't be hard to make the pie pastry ... have you seen how much work
goes into the Chinese egg tart pastry?)

Btw, over here in Oz, there is a rugby league team that is sponsored by a pie
company and they have pictures of the players tucking into the pies at the
shop ... is it any wonder the team finished with the wooden spoon for the last
two seasons?




Just been looking at my Sansui Model 2000 (earlyish Japanese days) and it
came with a full workshop manual packed with schematics, component id
photographs and a complete parts list down to the last nut & washer & a
comprehensive user manual.
.....sing along 'Those were the days my friend'



Certainly/absolutely, but it won't be long before some **** comes rushing up
to tell it's not *hi*fi or summat!!

;-)



Ah, but isn't the Sansui a SS amp? Probably has decent measurements as well ...

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Ian Molton wrote:

Tat Chan wrote:

and the bass on your Apogees is good enough to warrant not having a
subwoofer?


Dunno about apogees but my Radfords manage some very comfortable bass
down to about 12-15 Hz. no real need for a sub here, although for films,
perhaps it might be nice.

The Radfords are transmission line speakers, right?
Still, 12 - 15 Hz is pretty low for speakers.


Isn't it? :-)



My sub only goes to 35Hz and manages to fill my listening room with a low
rumble when watching movies.


:-)

"Kurt Hamster" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 12:47:15 +0100, Ian Molton used
to say...

Richard Wall wrote:
The other explanation is that the device you used for comparing the
frequency response and phase responses was not sufficiently resolving to
see
the differences. I note you say almost identical so there was a
difference
?
I note Stewart has pointed out that you cannot test without LMDBT. It
is
most important that levels are exactly matched but I do not agree on the
merits of DBT.

I dont see how you can fail to agree on the merits of DBT - it removes
both the testers AND the subjects bias.

If you are making the amps then yes it would be a good thing, but if it
is for the purposes of buying one then why should the listener's bias'
be ignored?


There's a lot of stuff *fundamental* to the design and manufacture of good
audio gear that can be safely left behind when the punter bolts his crappy
speakers to it and sets it up in a hideous 'acoustic environment'.....

From what I can see (comix, ads etc.) people want 'warm' these days rather
than 'accurate'.....???