Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

In article , Nick Gorham
wrote:
Tat Chan wrote:


Ah, but if you look down to the atomic level, isn't a sound wave
composed of the presence of discrete atoms? So the atom is either
there or it isn't ...

sounds binary to me!


Look a bit further down, and you find it all changes again, becomes
colapsing state vectors and uncertainty, nothing like binary.

Actually it collapses into theoreticians wandering around muttering about
11D [1] strings and wondering if the pub is open yet... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

[1] Or is it 12D by now?... :-)

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

In article ,
Mike Gilmour wrote:
Back in those olden days of quadraphonic you needed a cartridge with
an upper range of around 40-45kHz.

All together now.

OH NO YOU DIDN'T

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:14:33 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:


At what level, and at what distortion? I'd also wonder what the cut
squarewave might look like after a few dozen playings...

Worth remembering that a square wave recorded on vinyl will be - in
physical groove terms - a triangular wave, which may not be too bad
from a tracking point of view.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:14:33 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:


At what level, and at what distortion? I'd also wonder what the cut
squarewave might look like after a few dozen playings...

Worth remembering that a square wave recorded on vinyl will be - in
physical groove terms - a triangular wave, which may not be too bad
from a tracking point of view.

Since the playback device is veolcity sensitive, a triangle shaped groove
would produce a square wave output from the cartridge seems intuitively
clear. However, the idea that the groove is a triangle presumes no RIAA
pre-emphasis. The RIAA playback curve can be approximated by an
integrator. Therfore, the groove shape has to be something like a
differentiated triangle, no?

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:52:10 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 15:14:33 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:


At what level, and at what distortion? I'd also wonder what the cut
squarewave might look like after a few dozen playings...

Worth remembering that a square wave recorded on vinyl will be - in
physical groove terms - a triangular wave, which may not be too bad
from a tracking point of view.

Since the playback device is veolcity sensitive, a triangle shaped groove
would produce a square wave output from the cartridge seems intuitively
clear. However, the idea that the groove is a triangle presumes no RIAA
pre-emphasis. The RIAA playback curve can be approximated by an
integrator. Therfore, the groove shape has to be something like a
differentiated triangle, no?

Lemme think - are we back with a square wave?

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Gilmour wrote:
Back in those olden days of quadraphonic you needed a cartridge with
an upper range of around 40-45kHz.

All together now.

OH NO YOU DIDN'T

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
OH YES YOU DID..
take CD-4 if you wish, much the same....The difference signals are first
modulated onto a 30kHz carrier then added to the cutter L&R inputs
respectively. This upper modulation is tailored to fit the bandwidth from
approx 20-45 kHz. Bog standard pickups don't respond to these signals and
will just reproduce L&R signals. For Quad reproduction to happen you need
cartridges with a consistent response around 40-54 even to 50 kHz - only
when this range is passed from the cartridge to the demodulator will you
recover your 4 channels.

Happy now.

Mike

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message



take CD-4 if you wish, much the same....The difference signals are
first modulated onto a 30kHz carrier then added to the cutter L&R
inputs respectively. This upper modulation is tailored to fit the
bandwidth from approx 20-45 kHz. Bog standard pickups don't respond
to these signals and will just reproduce L&R signals. For Quad
reproduction to happen you need cartridges with a consistent response
around 40-54 even to 50 kHz - only when this range is passed from the
cartridge to the demodulator will you recover your 4 channels.

I'm informed by people who have experimented with CD-4 that some nominally
standard pickups, even moderately-priced ones, do respond well enough to
activate the 4-channel circuitry on some of the later design decoders.

They also report that the CD-4 carrier strength decreases fairly rapidly
with just a few dozen plays.I suspect that the same thing happens to such
musically harmonics that might be recorded on regular LPs.

Obviously, you want to go digital on modern media.

In the current context, 192 KHz DACs with 100 dB dynamic range and 96+ dB
THD+N specs sell for just over a dollar in production volumes. Universal DVD
players run $100-150.

DVD-A encoders can be had for a few $100, DVD burners and blanks are cheap,
so anybody who wants recordings with 100 KHz bandpass can do it themselves.

The expensive part is the mics - mics with 40 KHz or better bandpass can
easily run into the 4 figures expecially if you want cardioids.

Oh, and you better plan on sitting exactly on the axis of your 50
KHz-capable speakers.

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Mike Gilmour wrote:
Back in those olden days of quadraphonic you needed a cartridge with
an upper range of around 40-45kHz.

All together now.

OH NO YOU DIDN'T

--
*A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing well.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
OH YES YOU DID..


What is it with the maggot? - He's always trying to attach himself to
others, include himself with others, include others with himself.

Personally I think that pointless little tit is the root cause of 99% of the
crap in this group - the gutless weasel on the edge of the crowd shouting
"Go on, 'it 'im, don't let 'im talk to you like that!" kinda thing. Know
what I mean??

(Basic psychology 'mob behaviour'.....)

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Mike Gilmour" wrote in message



take CD-4 if you wish, much the same....The difference signals are
first modulated onto a 30kHz carrier then added to the cutter L&R
inputs respectively. This upper modulation is tailored to fit the
bandwidth from approx 20-45 kHz. Bog standard pickups don't respond
to these signals and will just reproduce L&R signals. For Quad
reproduction to happen you need cartridges with a consistent response
around 40-54 even to 50 kHz - only when this range is passed from the
cartridge to the demodulator will you recover your 4 channels.

I'm informed by people who have experimented with CD-4 that some nominally
standard pickups, even moderately-priced ones, do respond well enough to
activate the 4-channel circuitry on some of the later design decoders.


Excellent, that means modern moderately priced pickups have a better
bandwidth than before, so much progress - in the early 70's that mostly
wasn't the case.


They also report that the CD-4 carrier strength decreases fairly rapidly
with just a few dozen plays.I suspect that the same thing happens to such
musically harmonics that might be recorded on regular LPs.


I've not tried this yet with a top cartridge so I'll reserve judgement -
however I'll accept the wear would be accelerated with such minicule
modulations.



Obviously, you want to go digital on modern media.


No not really, I'm not into surround, much prefer stereo lp & cd - this was
in reply to a discussion about the upper frequency ranges pressed to vinyl
during the early '70's. According to the trade mags digital surround sales
are presently dropping so maybe they'll follow the same 70's demise.


In the current context, 192 KHz DACs with 100 dB dynamic range and 96+ dB
THD+N specs sell for just over a dollar in production volumes. Universal
DVD players run $100-150.

DVD-A encoders can be had for a few $100, DVD burners and blanks are
cheap, so anybody who wants recordings with 100 KHz bandpass can do it
themselves.

The expensive part is the mics - mics with 40 KHz or better bandpass can
easily run into the 4 figures expecially if you want cardioids.

Eh? The wide bandwidth is for the carrier not the audio modulated upon it.

Oh, and you better plan on sitting exactly on the axis of your 50
KHz-capable speakers.

I love listening to carriers /-; Coor what beaming :-)

Vinyl 'bitrates'
 

"Keith G" wrote in message


What is it with the maggot? - He's always trying to attach himself to
others, include himself with others, include others with himself.

Personally I think that pointless little tit is the root cause of 99%
of the crap in this group - the gutless weasel on the edge of the
crowd shouting "Go on, 'it 'im, don't let 'im talk to you like that!"
kinda thing. Know what I mean??

Love it how our resident vinyl preferers avoid name-calling and personal
abuse, eh?