In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


1) You seem not to have noticed the word "want" in what I wrote. :-)


Whether you (or anyone else) 'wants' to or not, I stand by my point that
*no-one* gets to hear 'just the music' when listening to an audio
(hifi?) system....

I am not sure how you can know this unless you have listened to every audio
system, playing every recording or broadcast. Since I don't recall you ever
visiting and listening to music via the system(s) I use, I would prefer my
own estimates of their performance to yours. :-)

However I would agree that what matters here is the *perception*. I
regularly get the perception that I am just listening to the music. When
doing so I have no awareness of the 'sound' of amplifiers, etc, in my audio
system(s).


2) The impression I generally get with the audio system I use is that
I am listening to the music, not to the amplifiers. :-)


Well, I'm tempted to say that you would more likely be listening to the
speakers,

See above. :-) However I'd agree that speakers (and the room) tend to
have far more influence on this than the amplifiers. One of the reasons
I've ended up preferring to use ESL's. :-)

but at the risk of shattering an illusion here, I would like
to make it quite clear that the only time I 'listen to my system' is
when I turn the volume all the way up with no source playing in an
'Aristotelian' search for 'thermionic fleas'....!! ;-)

Eg, last night I threw a very 'Techno' record on for a quick check of
how it would sound on my most recent setup (involving my new EL34 amp)
and ended up listening to all 4 sides of a double LP! (I think
'listening to the kit' went out of the window after the first 10
seconds - know what I mean?? :-)

Indeed, similar to my own experience - albeit with quite different types of
music and system... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote


In general, I enjoy the output of BBCR3. But they do use compression,
more so during the day as they assume people may wish this. Not as bad
as Classic FM, though...


Classic FM is *unlistenable* on anything other than a car radio or
portable 'tranny' IMO....

(Who TF could settle down to listening to it on a 'serious setup' in the
evening and put up with all those bloody adverts, never mind the sound
quality**...???)

In general, I'd agree. However a few years ago they did have one evening
program that broadcast 'vintage voices'. i.e. classical songs, etc, from
the 78rpm and acoustic era. This broadcast items that were rarely heard
elsewhere. I found this programme fascinating listening as it gave me a
chance to hear things I'd never encountered before. Alas, after a while
they stopped the programme. I assume it was not 'popular' enough... :-/

**Ignore me - due to laziness and one or two other (minor) practical
considerations, I'm presently listening to crappy DAB on my main system
and I'm a bit touchy about the whole topic of radio......

(DAB is also fine for cars and portables, but it is *not* proper 'radio'
- not by a country mile...!!!)

So far I have carefully avoided listening to DAB.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...


1) You seem not to have noticed the word "want" in what I wrote. :-)


Whether you (or anyone else) 'wants' to or not, I stand by my point that
*no-one* gets to hear 'just the music' when listening to an audio
(hifi?) system....

I am not sure how you can know this unless you have listened to every
audio
system, playing every recording or broadcast.


Trust me on this, I'm a 'Fettler Grade II'.... :-)


Since I don't recall you ever
visiting and listening to music via the system(s) I use, I would prefer my
own estimates of their performance to yours. :-)


Interesting you should say that - I never trust my own ears when it comes to
'changes' in my own system(s) - I'll ask *anyone* for an opinion before I
trust my own ears with anything other than a 'night and day' difference.....



However I would agree that what matters here is the *perception*. I
regularly get the perception that I am just listening to the music. When
doing so I have no awareness of the 'sound' of amplifiers, etc, in my
audio
system(s).


Me neither, unless I'm making a conscious effort to try and do so.


Indeed, similar to my own experience - albeit with quite different types
of
music and system... :-)


Not into 'Yello' then? ;-)

With your connection, I don't suppose this 'music rich' site:

http://www.yello.ch/

is much use? (Others with a nippy connection and good computer sound might
find 'The Eye' CD tracks interesting....???)

;-)

"Jim Lesurf" wrote


In general, I'd agree. However a few years ago they did have one evening
program that broadcast 'vintage voices'. i.e. classical songs, etc, from
the 78rpm and acoustic era. This broadcast items that were rarely heard
elsewhere. I found this programme fascinating listening as it gave me a
chance to hear things I'd never encountered before. Alas, after a while
they stopped the programme. I assume it was not 'popular' enough... :-/


Shame.

The 'damage' done to radio broadcasts these days is distressing to say the
least - Jove's way of telling you that you have lived too long, if you ask
me....


So far I have carefully avoided listening to DAB.


Well done - you have missed *nothing*, believe me!!

;-)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 15:24:03 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
wrote:

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Tat Chan
wrote:
but seriously, domestic appliances just work ... one buys them based
on cost, looks and features. It isn't like buying loudspeakers.

snip

You've not heard of Dyson, then? ;-)

Uh, they make vaccum cleaners without dust bags?

Yup - and have a 'cult' following with the religious fervour of valvies.
Except that they perform rather well. ;-)

Perhaps the word 'vacuum' implies special properties.

OTOH there may be nothing in it at all... ;-

I know some cryogenics guys who have been trying to achieve absolutely
nothing all their working lives - and they failed! :-)

BTW, the only way Microsoft will ever make a product that does *not*
suck, is if they buy out Dyson......................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
So far I have carefully avoided listening to DAB.

Well done - you have missed *nothing*, believe me!!

You get perfect reception on an FM portable radio around the house, do you?
Or rely on AM and prefer the quality of that?

DAB has its uses. If and when it is the only radio transmission system
you'd be right to be worried if in its present implematation.

--
*Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes
So far I have carefully avoided listening to DAB.

Slainte,

Jim


Very wise. I've heard a few DAB tuners, and I'm not impressed so far.
Although it may not be the fault of DAB, but of pushing too many
channels in the radio space. R3 certainly sounds the best, but as I
normally only listen to R3 to hear the excellent 'Late Junction', and
I've not heard that on DAB I can't compare. Speech on R4 is noticeably
poorer than on FM, and I don't listen to R1 or R2.

DAB certainly makes sense for car audio though, (but then again, so does
Minidisc, and that never really caught on).
--
Chris Morriss

Stewart Pinkerton wrote:



BTW, the only way Microsoft will ever make a product that does *not*
suck, is if they buy out Dyson......................

Windows 2000 is/was a good OS ...

Keith G wrote:


Trust me on this, I'm a 'Fettler Grade II'.... :-)

I used to know someone who was trained as a fettler, great guy, gone now
though :-(. Built a motorised bar stool for the pub we used to run.

Real talent being a fettler, I guess a bodger also required talent but
of a different sort.

Ah, the dark satanic mills...

--
Nick

"Life has surface noise" - John Peel 1939-2004

Tat Chan wrote:
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:



BTW, the only way Microsoft will ever make a product that does *not*
suck, is if they buy out Dyson......................


Windows 2000 is/was a good OS ...

No, No, NT 3.5, that seemed to be the nearest they got to a OS that
didn't crash and burn. Then they got rid of Kutler, and decided to push
the graphics driver into ring 0, and it all went to the wall again...

Does depend on what you decide a "good OS" has to do, OS9 and Vertex
were IMHO both good OS's, but not much use for the man in the street
(unless the were running the trafic lights).

--
Nick

"Life has surface noise" - John Peel 1939-2004