"Spiderant" wrote in message
news:sj4qd.369029$%k.133110@pd7tw2no...

"John Phillips" wrote in message
...
In article qmcpd.325023$%k.291216@pd7tw2no, Spiderant wrote:

A very interesting example. I assume this is Gould's 1981 "digital"
recording [1]. A stunning performance [2].

However, you have to be careful about just what's on the CDs and the
vinyl. There was a digital recording and an analogue recording made at
the same time as a backup in case the very early digital recording was
not good enough.

The first CDs (and *I assume* the vinyl release - can you verify this)
were made from the digital master. I have a fully digital CD.

Recently Sony have released CDs ("A State of Wonder") where the 1981
performance is re-mastered from the analogue back-up recording. I have
one of these as well.

The sound of Gould's humming is very different between the two CDs.

On my "digital" CD I find Gould's humming very disturbing. To me it
sounds so real but so disconnected from the music that I keep thinking
there's someone else in the house - precisely like your experience of
the vinyl.

On my "analogue" CD the humming is just as obvious but it "integrates"
much better with the music and is clearly coming from the performance
soundstage. It doesn't disturb me like the "digital" CD.

Which is better? The hi-fi enthusiasts at "Stereophile" (on the web)
seem to like the "analogue" CD and claim it has better resolution.
I don't hear this in the same way.

However, from my experience with the two CDs, maybe the CD you have is
the "analogue" version and the vinyl is the "digital" version - you may
possibly be comparing apples with oranges in this case.

[1] The 1981 is the recording where Gould's humming is most pronounced.

[2] The Gramophone's reviewers agree but the Penguin Guide's reviewers
unaccountably mark it down for Gould's inconsistent observance of
the repeats. They perfer recordings like Hewitt's which is burnished
perfection as a performance but not musically as satisfying (to me,
anyway).

--
John Phillips

Thank you for your excellent and lucid posting. It prompted me into some
serious comparisons between some of my records and their CD counterparts.
I
must say that what I discovered has distressed me immensly. It turns out
that both the CD of Gould's Goldburg Variaions and the vinyl recording are
the 1982 digital recordings. Both list the same engineers (Stan Tonkel,
etc.) and the statement "Mastered from the original digital recording in
the
CBS Recording Studios, New York on the CBS DisComputer system."

What disturbs me is that, after playing around (non-scientifically)
switching between my old Technics turntable and my various CD players
(Cambridge Audio D500, Yamaha CD-586 and a Panasonic DVD-RV32--which, to
tell you the truth, I would not be able to distinguish in an A/B test
situation), I still preferred the vinyl version, even with all of it's
obvious noises and other flaws. No matter how I played with the volume
controls (I had to adjust because the CD is recorded at a higher volume
than
the record), the record just seemed more open and spacious. And, contrary
to what I would have expected, it was the CD that sounded darker and
murkier. The piano sound on the record sounded more natural, with the
notes
more distinct. How is this possible? Digital is digital, right? Maybe
my
hearing is shot. It certainly can't be my ancient budget Technics SL-Qd3
turntable with a 20 year old needle.

Please understand that I am not a digitalphobe. As I said before, I have
about 1200 CDs versus about 50 records (I gave away most of my vinyl years
ago). I woudn't even ponder buying a Robert Simpson symphony on vinyl
over
CD. Even if I had a prediliction against digital, this would not account
for my sense that the digital record sounded clearer than the digital CD,
even though the CD was recorded at a higher volume and didn't have the
noise
floor. This does not make sense to me.

I am very distraught at this point. After spending an hour or so
yesterday
going between the Bach on record and Bach on CD, I a/b'd my recently
acquired remasterd copy of Neil Young's "On The Beach" with the original
vinyl (yes, I still have one). Again, the vinyl just sounded more open
and
natural. Not only that, but the balance between the speakers was
obviously
better, with Neil closer to the centre on Vinyl compared to blurred
between
the two speakers on CD. Again, contrary to what I would have expected, it
was the CD that sounded a bit warmer but more smeared. Again, this is not
what I wanted to discover. What do I do now, spend a huge chunk of my
income looking for a better CD player?

Sad and disillusioned.

Roland Goetz

Could you consolidate your three CD players into one superior model and do
the same for the two amps?

I prefer the sound of a £200 turntable over an £800 CD player - I'm no
"digiphobe" either, and I'd still find it worthwhile investing in a better
CD player to get the best I could afford from that medium - but I find vinyl
has the life, energy and projection which CD does not match.

A second-hand Marantz CD63SE or CD63KI Sig might suit your wish for more
openness and should cost between £100-£200 tops, although I'm certain others
have other suggestions.

I'd also recommend you replace that worn stylus immediately, so that you can
enjoy many more years from the records you have left - and from any future
vinyl purchases that you make.

"JustMe" wrote in message
...

Could you consolidate your three CD players into one superior model and do
the same for the two amps?

I prefer the sound of a £200 turntable over an £800 CD player - I'm no
"digiphobe" either, and I'd still find it worthwhile investing in a better
CD player to get the best I could afford from that medium - but I find
vinyl
has the life, energy and projection which CD does not match.

A second-hand Marantz CD63SE or CD63KI Sig might suit your wish for more
openness and should cost between £100-£200 tops, although I'm certain
others
have other suggestions.

I'd also recommend you replace that worn stylus immediately, so that you
can
enjoy many more years from the records you have left - and from any future
vinyl purchases that you make.

I'm not convinced that the problem is the amplifiers. I've tried many
different configurations of amps, including the great project kit "Foreplay"
pre-amp avaliable at http://bottlehead.com/. I've also used my Musical
Fidelity X Cans V3 as a pre-amp with my Yammy and the NAD with very good
results. Also, under headphones, I believe my current setup should be
getting me about 90% there. Also, I'm not convinced that I'll hear much of
a difference between the Marantz and the Cambrige Audio. Although I
certainly haven't compared many higher-end CD players, when I went to the
Sound Room, a local (Vancouver, Canada) audio shop and tried listening to
various players (I confess that I don't remember what they were anymore), I
don't think I would have been able to distinguish them. That being said,
I'll keep my ears open.

I'll take that suggestion to replace the stylus right away. In fact, I'm
going to start checking out the second-hand stores for a good belt driven
turntable as, from what other posters have said, direct drive turntables
don't sound nearly as good.

I really just wish that CDs did give me that sense of spatial detail that
vinyl does, however. The music just isn't moving me the way it used to.

Thanks for you response,

Roland Goetz.