"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Iain M Churches wrote:
I have yet to meet anyone who is not favourably impressed with
they hear a good 'un:-)) A local dealer gives me -35% off my own
purchases,

So you're still looking for the holy grail despite having apparently found
it with your amp?

I have no plans to change my amp. I can't find a more musical one:-)
I buy CD's and the occasional reel of mic cable from his shop.
He is opening a second shop, for valves and vinyl only,
which is in the course of redecoration. There are already
interested people peering into the empty window:-)

as the result of referrring so many valve amp and turntable
customers to him. He sets them up a system at home, to suit the room
and the budget, on 30 days approval. They usually want to trade in
the SS amp at the end of that time.

Well, yes. Some people just want change for the sake of it - or to be in
'fashion'.

I hadn't thought of valve amps as fashionable:-)
The psu for my amp weighs 50 kilos!!

Surely a sleek slimline SS amp, with a 10mm anodised aluminium
face plate is much more fashionable? :-)

Wish I had a quid for everyone I know who replaced a decent sounding older
components system for the latest micro or whatever one, and either can't
hear or don't care just how much worse it sounds...

Yes. That's very true. Most people are not really concerned as long as
some
sort of sound comes out of the speakers. Also have you noticed how few
people actually listen? After about ten seconds they have an uncontrollable
urge to break into conversation. Also in many households.
the lady of the house often has the casting vote regarding purchases.
She usually makes her vote on the basis of system cosmetics.

As far as valve amps are concerned, I think that most owners are discerning
listeners. Many are also musicians. It is my experience that people who
change
from SS to thermionic rarely go back. They usually by a more expensive
valve amp, often from the same maker.


Iain

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
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"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...95496 37&rd=1


**"Obviously, the amp can be pushed beyond it's limits but it overloads
so smoothly that the effect is more like compression than clipping and
yet it doesn't lose dynamics."

Who was the copy editor for this ad?

Just sales hype. Caveat emptor!
If it really is triode connected then it must be clipping long
before 10W.

**Not the point. Compression is, by it's very nature, a reduction in
dynamics.


Triode connected, a pair of EL84's with zero NFB give
5.2W at 2.5THD

4mV (RMS) hum?! Yikes! With 11 Watts output, you need efficient speakers.
With efficient speakers (Hell, with low efficiency speakers, you can hear
the hum), you can hear the hum. Catch 22 anyone?

Yes. That would certainly put me off!

**It should put any sane person off.

There is absolutely no reason why a valve amp should not be silent
when idling. One should reallly check this from the listening position.
I cannot resist the temptation to put an ear to the speaker grille.

**Of course. I've measured valve amps with S/N ratios exceeding a very
respectable 90+dB.


And have you noticed how the Chinese always go for potted
transformers, or sometimes, as in this case one full width pot:-)
I suspect this is to conceal Oxo cube sized transformers
which they use:-)

**Chinese valve amps are pretty designed as a fashion accessroy, rather than
a serious audio product. As they say: "A fool and his money......"


Just two nights ago, I tried out a 10W EL84 PP amp, a home-brew
built for a magazine competition. It could drive my Tannoy Lancasters
to a very satisfactory level, in a listening area of some 50 square
metres.
The noise floor was, in contrast to the Chinky,
only 300µV wideband, an improvement of 22dB

But then the cost of the parts alone were four times the retail price
of the Chinky. You pays yer money.......

**Of course.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...95496 37&rd=1


**"Obviously, the amp can be pushed beyond it's limits but it overloads
so smoothly that the effect is more like compression than clipping and
yet it doesn't lose dynamics."

Who was the copy editor for this ad?

Just sales hype. Caveat emptor!
If it really is triode connected then it must be clipping long
before 10W.

**Not the point. Compression is, by it's very nature, a reduction in
dynamics.

Perhaps the inscrutable Chinese are even more cunning than we
thought. Not only are they building amplifiers for very little money,
but they are also re-writing the laws of physics:-)

**Of course. I've measured valve amps with S/N ratios exceeding a very
respectable 90+dB.

Yes. That's correct. The SNR of the 10W amp which I tested was
94dB A-weighted. So a little 'un can be a good 'un:-)

Iain

"Iain M Churches" wrote
I hadn't thought of valve amps as fashionable:-)

I think so; now more than for a long time, it seems to me.


Martin

"Trevor Wilson" wrote
**Chinese valve amps are pretty designed as a fashion accessroy, rather than a serious audio product. As they say: "A fool and
his money......"

An absurd generalisation.

I wonder if you extend the same reasoning to Chinese people, in fact
anyone non-white?


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

Fleetie wrote:

**Chinese valve amps are pretty designed as a fashion accessroy,
rather than a serious audio product. As they say: "A fool and his
money......"

An absurd generalisation.

I wonder if you extend the same reasoning to Chinese people, in fact
anyone non-white?

Seems that your generalisation is even more absurd than his.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Wally" wrote in message
...
Fleetie wrote:

**Chinese valve amps are pretty designed as a fashion accessroy,
rather than a serious audio product. As they say: "A fool and his
money......"

An absurd generalisation.

I wonder if you extend the same reasoning to Chinese people, in fact
anyone non-white?

Seems that your generalisation is even more absurd than his.


--
Wally


And all the time, while we are debating who has the more absurd
generalisations, the Chinese amps are getting better and cheaper:-)

Iain

"Wally" wrote
Fleetie wrote:

**Chinese valve amps are pretty designed as a fashion accessroy,
rather than a serious audio product. As they say: "A fool and his
money......"

An absurd generalisation.

I wonder if you extend the same reasoning to Chinese people, in fact
anyone non-white?

Seems that your generalisation is even more absurd than his.

Where's my "generalisation"? I said "I wonder if...". Read more carefully
next time. Your English comprehension is **** poor.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

Fleetie wrote:

Seems that your generalisation is even more absurd than his.

Where's my "generalisation"? I said "I wonder if...". Read more
carefully next time. Your English comprehension is **** poor.

My comprehension of English is actually rather good - you "wondered" ****
all, you pathetic little toad - you insinuated that he's a racist. Your
ability to reason logically is a joke. How do you get from his
generalisation about chinese amplifiers to 'wondering' if he's not-only an
anti-Chinese racist, but an anti-any-non-white racist?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

"Fleetie" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote
**Chinese valve amps are pretty designed as a fashion accessroy, rather
than a serious audio product. As they say: "A fool and his money......"

An absurd generalisation.

**What I intended to write was: "......amps are pretty much designed....."
I have yet to find one which is designed to provide exemplary performance
(in the same vein as, say, the Audio Research VT100, or Conrad Johnson
Premier 16), but concentrates style over substance.


I wonder if you extend the same reasoning to Chinese people, in fact
anyone non-white?

**The Chinese people (minor cultural differences aside) are no different to
the people of other races. They desire peace, security, happiness and a full
tummy. Entrepreneurs (inside and outside China) have discovered that, due to
the phenomenally low wage levels of Chinese workers, they can build quite
attractively styled products, employing an interesting use of materials,
which, in Western, developed nations, would be completely uneconomical to
do. Due to my position in the industry, I am privy to the practices of many
importers and retailers in Australia. I am, for instance, aware of a Chinese
valve product, which sells for AUS$4,000.00. The FOB cost of the product is
US$400.00. At $4,000.00, the product APPEARS to be superb value for money,
based on the beautiful metalwork. At it's core, however, it is a
bog-standard, Japanese-derived one (RRP AUS$299.00), with fancy, hand built
metal features 'bolted on' and a couple of valves chucked into the mix. I
find the whole thing to be disgustingly cynical.

[ANECDOTE] One of my clients operates a boutique audio (now Audio/video)
store, in a trendy part of Sydney. When I wandered in a few weeks ago, I
spied a new product on their shelves. A Chinese built valve amplifier. It
was attractively styled, using thick slabs of anodised aluminium (aluminum,
for the Americans who still cannot spell), some nice meters, LEDs and bias
switches. All for about AUS$4,000.00. I asked one of the salesguys what he
thought about it. "Oh, it sounds very good. Tight, solid bass, airy highs
and a sweet midrange." I then asked him to compare it to a Rotel RA-02,
before my next visit. I called a week later and he said: "I see what you
mean. The Rotel (AUS$600.00) sounds better." It doesn't look as pretty,
though (though I rather like the clean lines of the Rotel).

BTW: Not that it matters, but I lived with a Chinese woman for several years
in the 1980s. I do not carry racist tendencies about with me. I look at the
facts. Nothing more.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au