You dismiss DBT as being an 'engineers' method Plowman

No I don't - you really have to learn to read.

Hello Andre -
I take what seems to me to be a very different view here. I love
engineering, and I have nothing against the people who carry it out so
I'm not throwing any stones here. What I've referred to is certain
personality factors that we know from available data (16PF, MBTI etc)
to be typical of engineers as a group - individual scores as always may
vary. When matching personality to occupation one would expect a close
fit on essential factors, but a more distant one on non-essential
factors which my be of the opposite polarity. So for factor A on the
16PF, a low score would have the advantage of scepticism, detachment,
precision, criticism and ability to work alone, though this would come
with a certain rigidity and reluctance to compromise. I am sure this
description would fit many on this ng. But additionally, a low score is
at the opposite polarity from easy-going, emotionaly expressive,
co-operative, kind, adaptable and attentive to people.
I think the situation you are referring to on this ng, Andre, is that
there is a collective mutual re-inforcement of low Factor A. We have to
be careful here since individual scores vary so we can't say either
"all low Factor A are engineers" nor again "all engineers are low
Factor A". The fact that certain ng members have distorted the term
'audio' into 'engineering' (in one case simplistically stating
audio=engineering) gives this collective the advantage of being able to
state principles and argue on what they take to be their territory.
This statement of collective views, when it comes into conflict with
those who see audio as additionally having essential human and musical
content, causes the collective to re-inforce their shared Factor A and
revert more overtly to type, which for Factor A is “obstructive,
cantankerous, inflexible, rigid, cool, indifferent, secretive, anxious,
suspicious, hostile, egotistical and dry". As I write this I can see
that this does not by any means describe certain of the engineers who
post here, but on the other hand it fits a small number with uncanny
accuracy.
If we explore the character types of those who are interested in the
human and musical aspects of audio, we see quite a different picture -
the creative and expressive features are considerably stronger, and so
is the capacity for adaptability, open-mindedness, conviviality etc.

In article , Don Pearce
writes
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:59:15 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"John Phillips" wrote


snip pricky stuff


It is difficult to generalize but most of the successful engineers I
know are also highly cultured people. Indeed, lunch today will be with
an engineering manager friend who plays the clarinet and I look forward
to discussing the programming of a forthcoming concert in which he will
perform. I find that good engineers often have a broader appreciation
of culture than those who claim the title "cultured" for themselves.


This phrase 'good engineers' bothers me....

(Implies there engineers who are *not* good - where do the they go then??)



They install aerials - some of them, anyway.

Eh?...

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

--
Tony Sayer

Keith wrote: My problem (or saving grace) is that I accomodate the
change in sound from different items of audio gear very quickly, which
is why I so elicit the opinions of others when the opportunity presents
- I'm interested in what they think, I don't need then to tell me what
I like.......

I hope Keith won't mind my referring to this as typical of higher
Factor A, showing "openness, flexibility, attention to people, ability
to co-operate, adaptability and an easy-going nature". In other posts
I've referred at some length to low Factor A and its association with
engineers as a group.

Keith G wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...

someone's voice" is high fidelity, sure. Unqualified fidelity would be
the possibility of mistaking the replay for the person in the room with
you but out of sight behind the curtain or perhaps behind you.

Long past that point, thank you kindly - being startled by 'unexpected'
voices and, for a split second, thinking there was someone in the house!!
That is a good example of a 'greater' degree of fidelity...

That happened eighty years ago, as documented in 'Out Of The Blue' by
Sapper.
I don't have my copy to hand so I may have got the wrong title but it shows
the dangers of pointing guns at yourself while a wireless is switched on
just before the start of the day's programmes.

--
Eiron

I have no spirit to play with you; your dearth of judgment renders you
tedious - Ben Jonson.

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
Keith wrote: My problem (or saving grace) is that I accomodate the
change in sound from different items of audio gear very quickly, which
is why I so elicit the opinions of others when the opportunity presents
- I'm interested in what they think, I don't need then to tell me what
I like.......

I hope Keith won't mind my referring to this as typical of higher
Factor A, showing "openness, flexibility, attention to people, ability
to co-operate, adaptability and an easy-going nature". In other posts
I've referred at some length to low Factor A and its association with
engineers as a group.



Andy, I've been called a few things in my time - 'Higher Factor A' is
*nothing*, believe me!! :-)

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:


You never need to trust an engineer - unless you fly...... :-)

Or cross a bridge... or go into a tall building... or... :-)



Had exactly the same thoughts when I saw that remark myself.....

(The Channel Tunnel came to mind also..... ;-)

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 11:28:22 +0000, tony sayer
wrote:

In article , Don Pearce
writes
On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 09:59:15 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


"John Phillips" wrote


snip pricky stuff


It is difficult to generalize but most of the successful engineers I
know are also highly cultured people. Indeed, lunch today will be with
an engineering manager friend who plays the clarinet and I look forward
to discussing the programming of a forthcoming concert in which he will
perform. I find that good engineers often have a broader appreciation
of culture than those who claim the title "cultured" for themselves.


This phrase 'good engineers' bothers me....

(Implies there engineers who are *not* good - where do the they go then??)



They install aerials - some of them, anyway.

Eh?...

I'm talking about the clowns who did his installation... not you;
hence the "some of them"

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article . com, Andre
Jute wrote:
(Ask yourself why Roderick
Stewart is going to such extraordinary lengths to "prove" his lie that
I devised these categories to be mutually exclusive, and why all the
wrong people immediately piled in to cheer him to the rafters. The
answer is sickening.)

Ahem. Do you mean me?

I have no idea what you "devised", and cannot recall making any assertion
that you devised anything, so it is hardly accurate to describe as a
"lie", somnething I didn't say.

What I did do was to quote verbatim YOUR OWN WORDS, (and I'll quote them
again if it helps) which appear to indicate that you have difficulty with
the concept of somebody with technical knowledge also being competent to
understand art, or "culture". If I've misunderstood those words, please
feel free to explain them and why they don't mean what they appear to
say.

Rod.

On 13 Feb 2006 10:41:59 -0800, "Andre Jute" wrote:

You won't catch me making any ad hominem statements.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Priceless..........................

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering