Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
. ..
Keith G wrote:


Note the word *tweaked* above - *if* the CDPs do sound the same (haven't
had the chance to get the choona to listen yet) then it implies that the
redoubtable Ken Ishiwata has got to *work* on a Marantz to get it sound
as good as an Argos cheapo CDP!! (Not to mention all those bloody copper
rivets!) Unless, of course, the standard of CDPs was significantly lower
when the Marantz was made!! (??)


Just to be picky.

There are at least two others potential implications.

1. the CDP sounded the same before it was tweeked and the changes were for
marketing reasons instead of the sound.


:-)



2. the differences are not revealed by your setup.


Sure, but I've heard that disc on a lot of different kit and I've never
heard it clearer/better!

AFAIAC the Argos POS CDP stood up to the test. I don't go for shooting stuff
down on hearsay and I was very curious to try this stuff for myself. All I
got to do now is drag it all back to Argos for a refund before the 15 days
are up!! :-)

OK, OK - only joking!!

I'm very pleased to have it. Now I gotta get an 'F' adaptor/aerial connector
to compare the FM side of the tuner (the DAB is side is fine) with the Denon
and Technics tuners I've got. (Why do I just *know* it will also hold up
fairly well, but we'll see.....???)

I got no problem with people who can afford to spend *stooopid* amounts of
money on CDPs that are hewn from billets of solid alloy &c. (no names, no
Linns, no packdrill...) and who choose so to do, but I am always pleased to
discover a reasonably priced bit of kit that'll also do a sterling job!!
It's revising my view about cheap secondhand stuff from eBay, given the
arseache that can be added to that equation sometimes!!

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

"Serge Auckland" wrote


It would be most interesting to see what actually changed between the
original and tweaked version that can be measured. Lower noise? Lower
distortion? Who knows. Then, as the original already had measurable
parameters well below the threshold of audibility, how can improving the
figures make it sound any better?

Unless proven otherwise, I think that Special Edition products are a
marketing exercise to improve margins.



Well, here's another one with only about 5 minutes to go:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I wouldn't be surprised if it also goes over the 200 quid mark by the time
it's done!

(Mebbe I should put mine on eBay now!! ;-)

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

On Thu, 11 May 2006 13:21:32 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

OK, this is good.

I have set up the Marantz *tweaked* CDP (£500 new**, apparently) on my
recently-acquired Argos POS stack (where the CD player cost nobbut 70
quid,

With a stark, clear, intimate female vocal/acoustic backing (Regina Lund
'Unique') CD on my *crystal clear* and very revealing Pinkies (Firewood
Horns with Fostex FE103E fullrange drivers) I ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT SPLIT
THEM!!

To me they sound about as *identical* as you could get!! Treble, bass,
background detail (of which there is plenty), 'recording noise' &c. - the
whole works!

Nothing controversial there. It would cost manufacturers more if they were
to make cheap players sound worse than expensive ones.


I beg to differ.

Note the word *tweaked* above - *if* the CDPs do sound the same (haven't had
the chance to get the choona to listen yet) then it implies that the
redoubtable Ken Ishiwata has got to *work* on a Marantz to get it sound as
good as an Argos cheapo CDP!! (Not to mention all those bloody copper
rivets!) Unless, of course, the standard of CDPs was significantly lower
when the Marantz was made!! (??)

Nah - the real fun would be to get hold of a bog-standard CD-63 and
see if you can tell the difference between that and your KI Signature
version. I know where I'd place *my* bet........

Like you say, once you're past about 1990 and about 100 squids,
there's no audible difference until you get to the 'high end' stuff
which is actually tweaked to *degrade* the sound quality!
Interestingly, those guys always claim that their knackered and
hideously expensive players sound 'more like analogue'..... :-)

....but as luck would have it, the piano tuner's due here sometime
between 1 and 2 o' clock.

Could you ask him if he still tunes to 440Hz for A or has moved on to the
European standard of 442Hz?


He tunes to 440 Hz.

As I am now forced into 'silent running' for the next hour or so I will
relate the whole story (trying to type silently) as told to me....

Goes like this:

For years the UK, Continent and US tuned A to 440 Hz. Ten years ago the
Berlin Philharmonic changed to 442 Hz and, liking it, changed again to 444
Hz (Beethoven's preference?) and, the tuner tells me, that most continental
orchestras now tune to 444. (Also James Galway had to get himself a new
flute when he joined the BPO!!)

We in the UK are 440 except the Birmingham Symphony Orchestra who is tuned
to 442 Hz...!! (The tuner 'does' them as well, apparently!)

Additionally, he advises that Steinway (London) has all 440/442/444 versions
in its 'Hire Fleet' and they will not allow them to be pulled up and down as
it unsettles them and spoils the tone. The tuner has left the piano in the
Derngate (Northampton) at 442 as he got fed up with having to keep changing
it, apparently!

That do yer?

Back later with the verdict on the CDPs. Meanwhile, here's a shot of the
'tuner's tuner':

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/tuner.JPG

Cost him £2,500 a while back apparently!!







--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

"Serge Auckland" wrote

It would be most interesting to see what actually changed between the
original and tweaked version that can be measured. Lower noise? Lower
distortion? Who knows. Then, as the original already had measurable
parameters well below the threshold of audibility, how can improving the
figures make it sound any better?

Unless proven otherwise, I think that Special Edition products are a
marketing exercise to improve margins.

Yes indeedy - and don't forget that the deservedly popular CD-63 came
*three* flavours at ever-increasing cost - standard, Special Edition,
and KI Signature. I'd be seriously surprised if anyone could tell them
apart in a blind test.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

On Thu, 11 May 2006 13:21:32 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

For years the UK, Continent and US tuned A to 440 Hz. Ten years ago the
Berlin Philharmonic changed to 442 Hz and, liking it, changed again to 444
Hz (Beethoven's preference?) and, the tuner tells me, that most continental
orchestras now tune to 444. (Also James Galway had to get himself a new
flute when he joined the BPO!!)

Feck me - that guy has flutes made of solid gold and solid platinum!
Did he get a whole new set made? :-)

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

On Thu, 11 May 2006 14:19:28 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
With a stark, clear, intimate female vocal/acoustic backing (Regina Lund
'Unique') CD on my *crystal clear* and very revealing Pinkies (Firewood
Horns with Fostex FE103E fullrange drivers) I ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT SPLIT
THEM!!

To me they sound about as *identical* as you could get!! Treble, bass,
background detail (of which there is plenty), 'recording noise' &c. -
the whole works!

Really, it's what you'd expect. Latest D to A convertors should only be
better than 20 year old ones - after all, why go to the bother of
producing a chip that will be made in millions if it's not decent? The
design cost is less than pennies over the run.

Which leaves the analogue part. Same thing applies - a decent op amp
doesn't cost large manufacturers more to buy or make.

I've got a long held feeling that makers like Sony who sell several
different CD players at different prices actually degrade the cheaper
models.

What makes you think that they sound different?

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote


Nah - the real fun would be to get hold of a bog-standard CD-63 and
see if you can tell the difference between that and your KI Signature
version. I know where I'd place *my* bet........


I was mulling all this over while grasscutting just now and it dawned on me
that I had to hack the Marantz' 'volume' back quite a way to match the Argos
cheepy for 'sound level' (which was done almost *perfectly*) - almost to
half way. (I can check this again later.) It kinda confirms my suspicions
that *tweaks* almost invariably seem to increase output voltages (and
resulting sound levels) and I suspect the standard and KI versions would
measure differently.

(After all, *louder* sounds better, don't it....??)

Then there's the copper screws (not rivets, as previously stated).....



Like you say, once you're past about 1990 and about 100 squids,
there's no audible difference until you get to the 'high end' stuff


Don't forget the comparison here is with a brand new 70 quid player!


which is actually tweaked to *degrade* the sound quality!
Interestingly, those guys always claim that their knackered and
hideously expensive players sound 'more like analogue'..... :-)


:-)

I'm sure they would claim they lengthened your lifespan/John Thomas (??) if
they thought they could get away with it!! The interesting thing would be to
see the magazine scribblers pick up the idea and run off with it!!

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

On Thu, 11 May 2006 15:35:19 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

The tuner was eager to please? Good customer relations? Hardly, this guy is
*busy* - one word out of place and he'd walk!! (Nice bloke but a bit
*prissy* if you know what I mean!! ;-)

He's a piano tuner, Keith. He does 'exactly precise' for a living!

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

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Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 May 2006 15:35:19 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

The tuner was eager to please? Good customer relations? Hardly, this guy
is
*busy* - one word out of place and he'd walk!! (Nice bloke but a bit
*prissy* if you know what I mean!! ;-)

He's a piano tuner, Keith. He does 'exactly precise' for a living!



Good point!! ;-)

Tuner compares CD players? - Advance notice!
 

In article , Keith G
writes

"Nick Gorham" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


Note the word *tweaked* above - *if* the CDPs do sound the same (haven't
had the chance to get the choona to listen yet) then it implies that the
redoubtable Ken Ishiwata has got to *work* on a Marantz to get it sound
as good as an Argos cheapo CDP!! (Not to mention all those bloody copper
rivets!) Unless, of course, the standard of CDPs was significantly lower
when the Marantz was made!! (??)


Just to be picky.

There are at least two others potential implications.

1. the CDP sounded the same before it was tweeked and the changes were for
marketing reasons instead of the sound.


:-)



2. the differences are not revealed by your setup.


Sure, but I've heard that disc on a lot of different kit and I've never
heard it clearer/better!

AFAIAC the Argos POS CDP stood up to the test. I don't go for shooting stuff
down on hearsay and I was very curious to try this stuff for myself. All I
got to do now is drag it all back to Argos for a refund before the 15 days
are up!! :-)

OK, OK - only joking!!

I'm very pleased to have it. Now I gotta get an 'F' adaptor/aerial connector
to compare the FM side of the tuner (the DAB is side is fine) with the Denon
and Technics tuners I've got. (Why do I just *know* it will also hold up
fairly well, but we'll see.....???)

I got no problem with people who can afford to spend *stooopid* amounts of
money on CDPs that are hewn from billets of solid alloy &c. (no names, no
Linns, no packdrill...) and who choose so to do, but I am always pleased to
discover a reasonably priced bit of kit that'll also do a sterling job!!
It's revising my view about cheap secondhand stuff from eBay, given the
arseache that can be added to that equation sometimes!!




I've still got the Sony ESS557 is it?, hewn out of a lump of solid
copper!. Excellent door mechanics sooo smooth and the sound ain't bad
either!...
--
Tony Sayer