Too neat to waste...
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in
message
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
The vinyl/CD war was won by CD almost 20 years ago. Why
are you still fighting it, Keith?


The 'Vinyl Wars' in this ng were won by vinyl a year or
two ago.

If they were it was because the likes of you drove
sensible types away with your acid tongue. As you've said
in another post many can't be bothered with being slagged
off for being right. ;-)

And, of course, you have your very own group -
uk.rec.audio.vinyl - which is virtually moribund apart
from a few adverts. What does that say to you?

Ironic that uk.rec.audio.vinyl became moribund almost on the day it
opened for business. If this is victory, I'd hate to see what a defeat
looks like. OTOH it isn't a victory, so the defeat of Keith's delusional
thinking looks fine!


Ukrav was a blind. It worked. Get over it....

Too neat to waste...
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Keith G
wrote:



Vinyl is stronger than it has been for the last two decades - every
turntable manufacturer in the world has brought out new models and even
people like MF and EAR have got into it. Competition for high quality
turntables and vinyl accessories on eBay is ferocious, cartridge/deck
manufacturers are bringing out new models and the DJ scene has never
been healthier!

You lost. Get over it....

Well, I continue, each year, to ask my undergrad classes about the audio
systems they have, etc. During the last few years *none* of them said they
have any LPs/Vinyl or any means of replaying them. The general reaction is
puzzlement why anyone would. Occasionally one says something like, "You
mean like DJs/Grandad use?", though.

:-) Sounds about right ...

There are still, of course, many people like myself who have a 'legacy'
collection of LPs, so have means of playing them. When I play one I tend to
enjoy it, but alas I also still often find the pops and crackles or the wow
of off-center pressings noticable. I am also increasingly aware of the
potential difficulty of obtaining replacement stylii for decades-old
cartridges.


And many people, say over 35, who have a stock of LPs in the loft, and a
nagging itch to hear the music and, possibly, re-live the vinyl
experience. I've given away three turntables (modern cartridges, stable
pitch) in last few years, and another donor volunteered the other
evening. I haven't figured out *why* they want to dedicate space to a
turntable and records, but there it is. This is what I'd call a 'revival'.

There are also, of course, some people with a special interest, and the
audio magazines cater to many of these. However my impression is that they
are only a tiny fraction of the general population of the UK. Indeed, when
I discuss 'hifi' with most people they seem utterly baffled by the
behaviour of 'audio enthusiasts'. Increasingly, I find I meet people who
have never seen an LP, let alone listened to one.

Rarefied circles you inhabit :-)

Hence I find the implication that Vinyl has 'won' rather odd...


I'm afraid I'm not sure of the battle/war/competition.

I suspect that there are still makers of horse whips and riding tackle,
supplying a niche market. Similarly, my impression is that Vinyl has
*survived* as a tiny niche market, within another niche market. This is
fine for those who like to ride a horse or play an LP, but given the status
and scope of these activities in earlier decades, I would not call it a
'win'.

Outside the niche, the posh Sundays (the only ones I try to read) seem
to have a rash of ads for those curious all-in-one turntable thingies.
If your point is that vinyl is more or less finished outside a very
select circle, I just don't see it.

Rob

Too neat to waste...
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

The 'Vinyl Wars' in this ng were won by vinyl a year or two ago.


Ironic that uk.rec.audio.vinyl became moribund almost on the day it
opened for business. If this is victory, I'd hate to see what a defeat
looks like. OTOH it isn't a victory, so the defeat of Keith's
delusional thinking looks fine!


Ukrav was a blind. It worked. Get over it....


Afraid I am puzzled by how ukrav was a 'blind'. But then I am also puzzled
by the assertion that, "Vinyl Wars in this ng were won by vinyl a year or
two ago.". I can't recall anything like this, so don't know what definition
of "won" may be meant.

So far as I can tell, the use of Vinyl LPs, etc, has virtually vanished
from public consciousness, and it is only now used by those who have a
'legacy' collection they wish to play, and a some enthusiasts.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Too neat to waste...
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:



Vinyl is stronger than it has been for the last two decades - every
turntable manufacturer in the world has brought out new models and even
people like MF and EAR have got into it. Competition for high quality
turntables and vinyl accessories on eBay is ferocious, cartridge/deck
manufacturers are bringing out new models and the DJ scene has never
been healthier!

You lost. Get over it....

Well, I continue, each year, to ask my undergrad classes about the audio
systems they have, etc. During the last few years *none* of them said they
have any LPs/Vinyl or any means of replaying them. The general reaction is
puzzlement why anyone would. Occasionally one says something like, "You
mean like DJs/Grandad use?", though.

There are still, of course, many people like myself who have a 'legacy'
collection of LPs, so have means of playing them. When I play one I tend
to
enjoy it, but alas I also still often find the pops and crackles or the
wow
of off-center pressings noticable. I am also increasingly aware of the
potential difficulty of obtaining replacement stylii for decades-old
cartridges.

There are also, of course, some people with a special interest, and the
audio magazines cater to many of these. However my impression is that they
are only a tiny fraction of the general population of the UK. Indeed, when
I discuss 'hifi' with most people they seem utterly baffled by the
behaviour of 'audio enthusiasts'. Increasingly, I find I meet people who
have never seen an LP, let alone listened to one.

Hence I find the implication that Vinyl has 'won' rather odd...

I suspect that there are still makers of horse whips and riding tackle,
supplying a niche market. Similarly, my impression is that Vinyl has
*survived* as a tiny niche market, within another niche market. This is
fine for those who like to ride a horse or play an LP, but given the
status
and scope of these activities in earlier decades, I would not call it a
'win'.



You're making the same mistake as the Twisted Sisters - the Vinyl Wars raged
*here* in ukra and the 'win' is the fact that posters can now occasionally
post vinyl topics here without the mile-long 'vinyl bashing' ****fests which
were the norm a year or two (or three?) ago. No-one, other than Arny, said
anything about what percentage of AV products currently being
bought/ripped/downloaded by Joe Chav were vinyl....

Although, it's interesting to see that he had to twist the historic (ukra)
essence of vinyl vs. CD to 'AV products' and try to broaden his scope enough
to disguise the fact that CD sales per se are dropping like stones, whilst
vinyl sales (particularly 7" singles, I gather) are being reported as being
on the increase...??

:-)

Too neat to waste...
 

In article , Rob
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:


I suspect that there are still makers of horse whips and riding
tackle, supplying a niche market. Similarly, my impression is that
Vinyl has *survived* as a tiny niche market, within another niche
market. This is fine for those who like to ride a horse or play an LP,
but given the status and scope of these activities in earlier decades,
I would not call it a 'win'.

Outside the niche, the posh Sundays (the only ones I try to read) seem
to have a rash of ads for those curious all-in-one turntable thingies.
If your point is that vinyl is more or less finished outside a very
select circle, I just don't see it.

I did not refer to a 'select circle', but to 'niche markets'. One of which,
as I mentioned, was those who still have some Vinyl they may wish to play.
:-)

I think that what you write supports what I wrote. I have my doubts that
many of those who buy the items you refer to are doing so intending to rush
out and buy new LPs. I also doubt many of us would regard the players you
refer to as being particularly impressive in terms of hifi... Although I
did have them in mind when I commented on the 'Grandad' end of the niche...
;-

I see all kinds of adverts for gadgets in magazines, spam mail, etc. But I
wonder if more than a small percentage of people buy most of them.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Too neat to waste...
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

[snip lots]

Hence I find the implication that Vinyl has 'won' rather odd...

[snip more]


You're making the same mistake as the Twisted Sisters - the Vinyl Wars
raged *here* in ukra and the 'win' is the fact that posters can now
occasionally post vinyl topics here without the mile-long 'vinyl
bashing' ****fests which were the norm a year or two (or three?) ago.

I must admit I haven't recalled anything like this which I'd regard as a
'Vinyl War'. I also wouldn't call it a 'win' for 'Vinyl' to simply feel
able to post your views. Although you might feel it was a personal 'win', I
don't see that as being one for 'Vinyl' as such. On that basis you might
just as easily say "CD has won some 'war'" because I and others are happy
to post comments about it here...


Although, it's interesting to see that he had to twist the historic
(ukra) essence of vinyl vs. CD to 'AV products' and try to broaden his
scope enough to disguise the fact that CD sales per se are dropping
like stones, whilst vinyl sales (particularly 7" singles, I gather) are
being reported as being on the increase...??

Set me wondering what the figures may be. My impression was that 7" 45rps
singles sales dropped to near zero some years ago, to the point where
basing charts on them we felt to be almost meaningless. On that basis,
quite a small number of sales might be an 'increase'. However some time ago
I switched to buying CDs via mail-order as it became almost impossible to
find a local shop that stocked much in the way of 'classical' or 'unusual'
music. Hence if many large music retailers are now flogging 7" 45's I would
not have noticed....

I haven't found any UK or World figures. However the RIAA have the following
figures - all in millions of physical units/year with the 2005 value followed
by the 2004 value in parentheses:

CD 705 (767)
LP/EP 1.05 (1.36)
Vinyl 45 2.3 (3.5)
SACD 0.5 (0.8)

Totals 748 (814)

The totals are for all physical formats including ones I haven't listed.

My impression from the figures is that physical formats in general may
be dropping simply due to some people switching to buying 'downloaded'
music - which they may then burn onto a CD as well as keeping on
something an mp3 player. Hence it may me misleading simply to say
in isolation that "CD sales are dropping like stones". The reality may
well be better described by noting that physical formats in general
are being affected. Just that since CD has dominated the physical format
sales for years, the effect is most noticable on that. Be interesting
to compare it with how many CDRs are being made of music, though...

On the above basis Vinyl looks to be only a tiny fraction of CD, and are
falling. Although it looks like Vinyl 45's are doing rather better than
SACD. :-)

Anyone know world or UK values for the above?


Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Too neat to waste...
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

The 'Vinyl Wars' in this ng were won by vinyl a year or two ago.


Ironic that uk.rec.audio.vinyl became moribund almost on the day it
opened for business. If this is victory, I'd hate to see what a defeat
looks like. OTOH it isn't a victory, so the defeat of Keith's
delusional thinking looks fine!


Ukrav was a blind. It worked. Get over it....


Afraid I am puzzled by how ukrav was a 'blind'.



It drew the vinyl bashing away from ukra. It wasn't a serious idea when I
first suggested it and was really only a 'threat'! It only came into
existence because someone grabbed the idea and ran with it. (I don't care
what happens to it and I don't even subscribe there...!!!)


But then I am also puzzled
by the assertion that, "Vinyl Wars in this ng were won by vinyl a year or
two ago.". I can't recall anything like this, so don't know what
definition
of "won" may be meant.



OK, try this - right now I have 5 unread posts here in ukra. They *all*
relate to vinyl.

It didn't go away, it wasn't banished after all - ie Vinyl won the 'Vinyl
Wars *here* in ukra.....




So far as I can tell, the use of Vinyl LPs, etc, has virtually vanished
from public consciousness, and it is only now used by those who have a
'legacy' collection they wish to play, and a some enthusiasts.


That remark shows you to be entirely ignorant of the torrent of new
equipment and new releases that continue to flow. I think you underestimate
the interest in vinyl - the UK alone is no indicator...

Too neat to waste...
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:



Vinyl is stronger than it has been for the last two decades - every
turntable manufacturer in the world has brought out new models and even
people like MF and EAR have got into it. Competition for high quality
turntables and vinyl accessories on eBay is ferocious, cartridge/deck
manufacturers are bringing out new models and the DJ scene has never
been healthier!

You lost. Get over it....

Well, I continue, each year, to ask my undergrad classes about the audio
systems they have, etc. During the last few years *none* of them said they
have any LPs/Vinyl or any means of replaying them. The general reaction is
puzzlement why anyone would. Occasionally one says something like, "You
mean like DJs/Grandad use?", though.


Means nothing, is indicative of nothing outside the very small sample of
students you have there.



There are still, of course, many people like myself who have a 'legacy'
collection of LPs, so have means of playing them. When I play one I tend
to
enjoy it, but alas I also still often find the pops and crackles or the
wow
of off-center pressings noticable. I am also increasingly aware of the
potential difficulty of obtaining replacement stylii for decades-old
cartridges.


Why should vinyl stuff be any different to any other product? - Try getting
parts for 2 year old Sony gear....



There are also, of course, some people with a special interest, and the
audio magazines cater to many of these. However my impression is that they
are only a tiny fraction of the general population of the UK. Indeed, when
I discuss 'hifi' with most people they seem utterly baffled by the
behaviour of 'audio enthusiasts'. Increasingly, I find I meet people who
have never seen an LP, let alone listened to one.

Hence I find the implication that Vinyl has 'won' rather odd...


See other post. But you are still confusing the ukra 'Vinyl Wars' (my term,
I know what it means) with 'public' demand for vinyl in the UK.



I suspect that there are still makers of horse whips and riding tackle,
supplying a niche market. Similarly, my impression is that Vinyl has
*survived* as a tiny niche market, within another niche market. This is
fine for those who like to ride a horse or play an LP, but given the
status
and scope of these activities in earlier decades, I would not call it a
'win'.


See above, try to make the distinction. Outside of ukra there was no 'War'
only the evolution of the market for recorded music and the means to play
it. Wrightly or rongly, CD will have its own 'fight' and, interestingly, it
will the current 'enemies of vinyl' who will have to fight that one in ukra
sometime in the future! ;-)

Too neat to waste...
 

"Keith G" wrote



That remark shows you to be entirely ignorant of the torrent of new
equipment and new releases that continue to flow. I think you
underestimate the interest in vinyl - the UK alone is no indicator...


Insert a *worldwide* where you think it best........

Too neat to waste...
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

[snip lots]

Hence I find the implication that Vinyl has 'won' rather odd...

[snip more]


You're making the same mistake as the Twisted Sisters - the Vinyl Wars
raged *here* in ukra and the 'win' is the fact that posters can now
occasionally post vinyl topics here without the mile-long 'vinyl
bashing' ****fests which were the norm a year or two (or three?) ago.

I must admit I haven't recalled anything like this which I'd regard as a
'Vinyl War'.


That's because you weren't fighting it.


I also wouldn't call it a 'win' for 'Vinyl' to simply feel
able to post your views.


What would qualify for a win?


Although you might feel it was a personal 'win',



Sure I bloody do - despite all the offlist 'encouragement' I got, there
weren't too many others taking the bashers on at the time....


I
don't see that as being one for 'Vinyl' as such. On that basis you might
just as easily say "CD has won some 'war'" because I and others are happy
to post comments about it here...


???

Your logic escapes me here....


snip


On the above basis Vinyl looks to be only a tiny fraction of CD, and are
falling. Although it looks like Vinyl 45's are doing rather better than
SACD. :-)

Anyone know world or UK values for the above?


I take all these figures with a large pinch of salt - there was an article
in a UK publication recently that claimed a massive (170%?) increase in the
last year's sales of 7 inch singles. Any of these figure could be wrong, the
'increases' in vinyl awareness/usage I refer to are more the new decks and
associated kit that keep coming out. Presumably people buying the stuff have
got something to play on it it?