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"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
writes



FWIW, I have to say I don't detect a massive difference between FV and DAB
R3, other than a significant jump in loudness which makes comparisons
difficult.

Well something very amiss there then!...

(So I don't bother to compare them much....!! ;-)


OK. Swim just walked in so I got her to compare (it's 2 adjacent buttons on
the zapper but I have to correct the volume difference each time) - she
picked the Freeview straight away and stuck with it for three swaps. 'Better
balanced' was the comment.

(All I can tell is the hiss on each one seems slightly different pitch and
there's a definite *whump, whump, whump* on the Freeview at high volume, but
I suspect notta lotta people know dat.... ;-)

Friends of Radio 3
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
writes



FWIW, I have to say I don't detect a massive difference between FV and
DAB
R3, other than a significant jump in loudness which makes comparisons
difficult.

Well something very amiss there then!...

(So I don't bother to compare them much....!! ;-)


OK. Swim just walked in so I got her to compare (it's 2 adjacent buttons
on the zapper but I have to correct the volume difference each time) - she
picked the Freeview straight away and stuck with it for three swaps.
'Better balanced' was the comment.


Actually she described them both as a *cracking* sound....????

(Trust me, it's the speakers...!! ;-)

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In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


It may well be time for a 'new' tuner and/or a high-gain antenna on the
roof. However I am not certain, given the nature of the problems, how
much these will help. So I suppose I should also consider using either
a Freeview box or some form of satellite RX.

I'd opt for an outside directional aerial and when you do that get the
aerial and get someone to put it up for you unless you can DIY.

a Triax 4 or 5 element can be had from www.cpc.co.uk don't rely on the
aerial rigger to supply an 'eff emm hairel they almost without exception
put up a Halo which is a waste of good metal!.

Freeview is well.. ok as far as 192K audio goes, but 256 K + on
satellite is where it ought be. Still for around a 100 squids you can
get some excellent audio from the other side of the channel:--)).

You have encapsulated my present dilemma. :-)

I am currently undecided between:

1) Do as you say, Get a high-gain VHF antenna up above the roof, and
perhaps also replace the CT7000 with something decent and more modern

2) Run a UHF antenna feed to the hifi room, and use a 'FreeView' box.

3) Satellite RX.

At present I am tempted by (2) as we already have a decent UHF system that
gives fairly reliable reception. I could fit a low-noise UHF distribution
amp in the loft quite easily, and use one o/p for the current feed to the
living room, and another into the hifi room. A FreeView box with an SPDIF
output would also be cheaper than a good FM tuner, so this would be a
cheaper and easier option for me than (1) or (3). In general I have found
the sound on FreeView R3 and BBC4 OK. An added advantage of this would be
being able to record the sound from BBC4 or a station like BBC7 onto CD
when I wanted.

The worry is the BBC's established track-record of trashing the quality of
their output. Sod's Law predicts that I'd do (2) and they promptly drop the
bitrates on Freeview sound! :-/



Must admit to having mixed feelings about an 'Audiolab' one. I have now
given up on trying to fix the seriously-broken 8000A. The circuit
diagram from the net is incorrect in some details, and having spent
some time studying the actual circuit I must confess to having become
less than impressed.

Should have said!, one does know ones old employers still;)

I tried asking them for a circuit diagram, etc. Their party line is that
they charge X pounds/hour to work on fixing things.


We also seem to get more interference during the day than during the
evening. Although there is a tendency here for the RF level to droop
during the evenings.

Odd.. your not the other side of that river estuary?, firth of Tay or
whatever its called???

We are about 10 miles south of the Tay estuary, and about 20 miles north of
the Forth. I think that Forfar is a bit west of north from here. This means
it is a moderately clear line across the Tay, but with Dundee on the line
of sight. I do suspect some of the interference comes from Dundee as it is
the only 'large city' in reasonably clear view from here. It is also
spreads up the hills facing us on the other side of the Tay.

Hence as well as a limited signal, we seem to have a major source of
interference on much the same line of sight.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


It may well be time for a 'new' tuner and/or a high-gain antenna on the
roof. However I am not certain, given the nature of the problems, how
much these will help. So I suppose I should also consider using either
a Freeview box or some form of satellite RX.

I'd opt for an outside directional aerial and when you do that get the
aerial and get someone to put it up for you unless you can DIY.

a Triax 4 or 5 element can be had from www.cpc.co.uk don't rely on the
aerial rigger to supply an 'eff emm hairel they almost without exception
put up a Halo which is a waste of good metal!.

Freeview is well.. ok as far as 192K audio goes, but 256 K + on
satellite is where it ought be. Still for around a 100 squids you can
get some excellent audio from the other side of the channel:--)).

You have encapsulated my present dilemma. :-)

I am currently undecided between:

1) Do as you say, Get a high-gain VHF antenna up above the roof, and
perhaps also replace the CT7000 with something decent and more modern

Shouldn't cost a lot...


2) Run a UHF antenna feed to the hifi room, and use a 'FreeView' box.

Dunno.. Perhaps you don't mind MP2 low rate artefacts.. I do..


3) Satellite RX.

Well for around £100 there is a lot up there at good rates and in very
high quality. Pity Auntie BBC isn't among them;!...



At present I am tempted by (2) as we already have a decent UHF system that
gives fairly reliable reception. I could fit a low-noise UHF distribution
amp in the loft quite easily, and use one o/p for the current feed to the
living room, and another into the hifi room. A FreeView box with an SPDIF
output would also be cheaper than a good FM tuner, so this would be a
cheaper and easier option for me than (1) or (3). In general I have found
the sound on FreeView R3 and BBC4 OK. An added advantage of this would be
being able to record the sound from BBC4 or a station like BBC7 onto CD
when I wanted.

The worry is the BBC's established track-record of trashing the quality of
their output. Sod's Law predicts that I'd do (2) and they promptly drop the
bitrates on Freeview sound! :-/

Well I doubt they would but then again a lot thought the 192 on DAB was
sacrosanct till recently!. Who knows?. Satellite with its massive
bandwidth availability does look to be a long term answer..




Must admit to having mixed feelings about an 'Audiolab' one. I have now
given up on trying to fix the seriously-broken 8000A. The circuit
diagram from the net is incorrect in some details, and having spent
some time studying the actual circuit I must confess to having become
less than impressed.

Should have said!, one does know ones old employers still;)

I tried asking them for a circuit diagram, etc. Their party line is that
they charge X pounds/hour to work on fixing things.


We also seem to get more interference during the day than during the
evening. Although there is a tendency here for the RF level to droop
during the evenings.

Odd.. your not the other side of that river estuary?, firth of Tay or
whatever its called???

We are about 10 miles south of the Tay estuary, and about 20 miles north of
the Forth. I think that Forfar is a bit west of north from here. This means
it is a moderately clear line across the Tay,

Doesn't seem like tidal fading at that distance..

but with Dundee on the line
of sight. I do suspect some of the interference comes from Dundee as it is
the only 'large city' in reasonably clear view from here. It is also
spreads up the hills facing us on the other side of the Tay.

Hence as well as a limited signal, we seem to have a major source of
interference on much the same line of sight.

Well if it is interference on such a scale that its causing upset then
Ofcom ought to be interested but I somehow doubt that is and if it is
what would it be?. Perhaps the answer lies closer to home!..

Slainte,

Jim


--
Tony Sayer

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , Keith G
writes

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
writes

"Jim Lesurf" wrote


It may well be time for a 'new' tuner and/or a high-gain antenna on the
roof. However I am not certain, given the nature of the problems, how
much
these will help. So I suppose I should also consider using either a
Freeview box or some form of satellite RX.


I don't seek to offer 'advice' here, but I would just mention that the
recent *much blogged* installation of a 4 element FM aerial here has ended
up with me ripping it off and using the mast and wiring for a TV aerial to
get a 'digital' signal strength on my PVRs that sticks out the side of the
TV screen! (I can see the top 2/3 lights of the Sandy Heath transmitter
from
the top of my front path of an evening....)

Something very wrong there then Keith. Perhaps it was that cable join in
the gutter!..


There is no cable join, it is one piece from the aerial to the appliance...

Sure about that, seemed to be joined on that piccy you showed me?..




Whether or not is was the downside of have an ultra-clear system I don't
know, but there was just too much going on with FM - roaring, distant
tweedling noises (birdy whistle?) and announcers clearly sounding like
they
were in little cubicles!! As has been said elsewhere, the sound quality of
FM during the day wasn't much to shout about either!

Something else rather up the creek, don't have those sorta problems
here. They do have the announcers in smallish rooms tho!..


It's not so obvious on the Tannoys....



But then, my *best* radio listening is done in the garage in the
afternoons
(R3 Evensong, for example) on a crap-covered Roberts FM radio!

Thats why they compress a bit;)


Ironic, coming from a *vinylist* isn't it?

Yep..


Almost as ironic as someone who prefers 'digital' to Vinyl but prefers FM to
'digital'....

FM is better digital. The stupid thing is that its carried around
digitally but then analogue modulated.

But its a better type of digital!..

;-)







--
Tony Sayer

Friends of Radio 3
 

"tony sayer" wrote


Something very wrong there then Keith. Perhaps it was that cable join in
the gutter!..


There is no cable join, it is one piece from the aerial to the
appliance...

Sure about that, seemed to be joined on that piccy you showed me?..


Yes, the cable joint was put right on the second or third visit (don't
remember now). The second guy was leaving the outfit and was quite eager to
slag the first guy off and *put right* his handiwork. There is no joint
now - more's the pity, the RGB input (having swapped to a TV aerial) from
the PVR and digibox on each of two small tellies is positively *florid*!!


FM is better digital. The stupid thing is that its carried around
digitally but then analogue modulated.

But its a better type of digital!..


So is a 'digitally mastered' LP....!!

;-)

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


2) Run a UHF antenna feed to the hifi room, and use a 'FreeView' box.

Dunno.. Perhaps you don't mind MP2 low rate artefacts.. I do..

I have in the past (mostly) been quite happy with the sound quality on R3
and BBC4 for Prom broadcasts. There have been some notable exceptions
where there seemed to be a specific problem. Also, the DTTV signal seems
much more prone to audio 'glitches' due to impulse interference than DAB.
However, overall, in our local conditions I prefer it to FM R3. The snag
being that "what you have shalt be taken away" may eventually apply to this
as well as to DAB...


Hence as well as a limited signal, we seem to have a major source of
interference on much the same line of sight.

Well if it is interference on such a scale that its causing upset then
Ofcom ought to be interested but I somehow doubt that is and if it is
what would it be?. Perhaps the answer lies closer to home!..

I have now begun to suspect that the CT7000 has slowly deteriorated and I
became 'accustomed' to this as it happened, and assumed it was simply
interference. So it may be that a more modern tuner as well as a better
antenna would deal with the problem. My dilemma is as I outlined before...
:-/

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , Keith G
writes

"tony sayer" wrote


Something very wrong there then Keith. Perhaps it was that cable join in
the gutter!..


There is no cable join, it is one piece from the aerial to the
appliance...

Sure about that, seemed to be joined on that piccy you showed me?..


Yes, the cable joint was put right on the second or third visit (don't
remember now). The second guy was leaving the outfit and was quite eager to
slag the first guy off and *put right* his handiwork. There is no joint
now - more's the pity, the RGB input (having swapped to a TV aerial) from
the PVR and digibox on each of two small tellies is positively *florid*!!




Well.. should have DIY'ed it in the first place;!..

FM is better digital. The stupid thing is that its carried around
digitally but then analogue modulated.

But its a better type of digital!..


So is a 'digitally mastered' LP....!!

Well these D to A and err, D to D but throw away a few bitsa of the D
along the way..

A mad olde world eh?..


;-)





--
Tony Sayer

Friends of Radio 3
 

In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes
In article , tony sayer

wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf jcgl@st-
and.demon.co.uk writes


2) Run a UHF antenna feed to the hifi room, and use a 'FreeView' box.

Dunno.. Perhaps you don't mind MP2 low rate artefacts.. I do..

I have in the past (mostly) been quite happy with the sound quality on R3
and BBC4 for Prom broadcasts. There have been some notable exceptions
where there seemed to be a specific problem. Also, the DTTV signal seems
much more prone to audio 'glitches' due to impulse interference than DAB.
However, overall, in our local conditions I prefer it to FM R3. The snag
being that "what you have shalt be taken away" may eventually apply to this
as well as to DAB...

Humm..., give 'em time, Audio quality isn't a big issue in the BBC
management....



Hence as well as a limited signal, we seem to have a major source of
interference on much the same line of sight.

Well if it is interference on such a scale that its causing upset then
Ofcom ought to be interested but I somehow doubt that is and if it is
what would it be?. Perhaps the answer lies closer to home!..

I have now begun to suspect that the CT7000 has slowly deteriorated and I
became 'accustomed' to this as it happened, and assumed it was simply
interference. So it may be that a more modern tuner as well as a better
antenna would deal with the problem. My dilemma is as I outlined before...
:-/

Well one way or 't other. I still reckon Satellite is the long term answer....


Slainte,

Jim


--
Tony Sayer