Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

"Keith G"

** How about a lumpy join in the drive belt ?


If that was the case, I would expect the noise to be when the lump
passes over the pully, which would be less that 33.3 or 45.


** How is that so ????????

No matter what size the belt is, it only traverses the motor pully once
per table revolution.

Think it through .......

Even Homer nods....


Well, stop nodding - Nick's right, the platter gains on the belt by the
extra distance the belt has to travel out to the pulley on every
revolution.


** Yep - but that extra distance is a simple linear one while the belt is
circumferential.

With a 30 cm dia platter, the difference in belt and table rpm is only 2% or
3 %.



The 'lump' is always less than platter revolution by that amount *per
revolution* - ie, it get's increasingly further behind/increasingly less
than platter rotation speed....


** WRONG, the belt's rpm is quite steady and just a tiny bit slower than
the platter.


Think it through ....




........ Phil

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:10:44 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
. ..

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"lordy" wrote in message
...
On 2006-08-29, Trevor Wilson
wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

**OK, first mistake: The Debut is already fitted with a phono
preamp.
It
can only be used with a line level input.

**Oh yeah. Make certain the MC/MM switch is correctly set.

Hi Trevor, after a bit of Googling, it looks like you have the "Phono
Speedbox"
edition ??

**I don't own one, I just fix 'em. All of the Debuts I see are fitted
with an internal phono preamp.




Interesting. How many have you fixed??

**A couple of dozen, or so. The early models had a really weird
'melting'
platter kind of problem. I've never seen anything quite like it and I've
only ever seen it on Pro-Ject turntables. The platter actually deforms,
as
if it has been subjected to high temperatures. Don't forget: I am a
service agent for the product, here in Sydney, so I am likely to see
then
when they go wrong. IMO, they are pretty decently performing products,
for
not too much money. Were they manufactured in a first world nation, I'd
reckon at them being around 3 times the price. Sadly, some corners have
been cut, but disastrously so.



Interesting. I bought a Debut II at *trade* to investigate them - the
platter was pressed steel with a felt mat, so it seems they had
effectively
cured platter problems by then. Sound quality was more than adequate for
first-timers, people on a budget or someone who just wanted to drag the
good
stuff down from the loft. Tracking improved considerably with the OM20
stylus that I put on mine and the inclusion of a Phono Stage was a
significant step forward for those whose amps didn't have one.

Considering they came with a stylus upgradable Ortofon cart for a wunnah I
considered them to be *untouchable* on the VFM front and with continuing
production figures of over a thousand per month (maybe it was 1,500??)
quoted in the comix a few years ago, it would appear I wasn't the only
one...???


Sounds to me like the name Debut II has been applied to totally
different products in different parts of the world. Wouldn't be the
first time, either.



'Totally different' is a bit severe - if the Debuts Trevor's referring to
weren't plain 'Debuts' (Debut 1s, as it were) then I would guess the only
difference was the platter. The Debut III (which I don't know) had a
'better' tonearm on it I gather, but I suspect it didn't vary much from the
II in other respects...???

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:25:42 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:10:44 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

"lordy" wrote in message
...
On 2006-08-29, Trevor Wilson
wrote:

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
...

**OK, first mistake: The Debut is already fitted with a phono
preamp.
It
can only be used with a line level input.

**Oh yeah. Make certain the MC/MM switch is correctly set.

Hi Trevor, after a bit of Googling, it looks like you have the "Phono
Speedbox"
edition ??

**I don't own one, I just fix 'em. All of the Debuts I see are fitted
with an internal phono preamp.




Interesting. How many have you fixed??

**A couple of dozen, or so. The early models had a really weird
'melting'
platter kind of problem. I've never seen anything quite like it and I've
only ever seen it on Pro-Ject turntables. The platter actually deforms,
as
if it has been subjected to high temperatures. Don't forget: I am a
service agent for the product, here in Sydney, so I am likely to see
then
when they go wrong. IMO, they are pretty decently performing products,
for
not too much money. Were they manufactured in a first world nation, I'd
reckon at them being around 3 times the price. Sadly, some corners have
been cut, but disastrously so.



Interesting. I bought a Debut II at *trade* to investigate them - the
platter was pressed steel with a felt mat, so it seems they had
effectively
cured platter problems by then. Sound quality was more than adequate for
first-timers, people on a budget or someone who just wanted to drag the
good
stuff down from the loft. Tracking improved considerably with the OM20
stylus that I put on mine and the inclusion of a Phono Stage was a
significant step forward for those whose amps didn't have one.

Considering they came with a stylus upgradable Ortofon cart for a wunnah I
considered them to be *untouchable* on the VFM front and with continuing
production figures of over a thousand per month (maybe it was 1,500??)
quoted in the comix a few years ago, it would appear I wasn't the only
one...???


Sounds to me like the name Debut II has been applied to totally
different products in different parts of the world. Wouldn't be the
first time, either.



'Totally different' is a bit severe - if the Debuts Trevor's referring to
weren't plain 'Debuts' (Debut 1s, as it were) then I would guess the only
difference was the platter. The Debut III (which I don't know) had a
'better' tonearm on it I gather, but I suspect it didn't vary much from the
II in other respects...???



A bit, but I was typing one handed with an omelette pitta sandwich in
the other, so I wasn't being too wordy. I'm sure the overall "look and
feel" is similar enough, but the detailed bits could easily be very
different.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:19:01 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Remarks like that from an occasional, blow-in (with nothing to say, like
you) aren't going to keep you out of my ****ter for long...


blather snipped

You left the blather in, but snipped the serious point :-)

I'd like to hear your reasons why you think high-level sub-sonic
content isn't of interest?

If you want to trade insults too, fine. You started it, remember :-)

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

On 2006-08-29, Eiron wrote:
lordy wrote:

Done. I've re-recorded the clip, and added another clip from another
vinyl source for good measure.

http://lordy.org.uk/noise.html


Note that the very low frequency repeats 33.3 times per minute on the LP
and 45 times a minute on the 45. Could be a dodgy bearing or two duff discs.

There may well be no earth anywhere, which is just as likely to cause mains hum
as two earths. You may need to add an earth.

I'm assuming from that reply the noisiest frequency (hum), is 50Hz for both from that
reply, and that's why you are still suspicious of earthing issues?

FWIW I took it downstairs and hooked up to my amp (Cambridge Audio A500)
and the hum is still there!

Lordy

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:35:21 GMT, lordy wrote:

On 2006-08-29, Eiron wrote:
lordy wrote:

Done. I've re-recorded the clip, and added another clip from another
vinyl source for good measure.

http://lordy.org.uk/noise.html


Note that the very low frequency repeats 33.3 times per minute on the LP
and 45 times a minute on the 45. Could be a dodgy bearing or two duff discs.

There may well be no earth anywhere, which is just as likely to cause mains hum
as two earths. You may need to add an earth.

I'm assuming from that reply the noisiest frequency (hum), is 50Hz for both from that
reply, and that's why you are still suspicious of earthing issues?

FWIW I took it downstairs and hooked up to my amp (Cambridge Audio A500)
and the hum is still there!

Lordy


Of the three main bits of kit - computer, preamp and deck, which of
them are actually grounded through their own mains lead? There is
plainly a ground loop to be eliminated here.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 21:24:49 +1000, "Phil Allison"
wrote:

Well, stop nodding - Nick's right, the platter gains on the belt by the
extra distance the belt has to travel out to the pulley on every
revolution.


** Yep - but that extra distance is a simple linear one while the belt is
circumferential.

With a 30 cm dia platter, the difference in belt and table rpm is only 2% or
3 %.

That's rather different to "No matter what size the belt is, it only
traverses the motor pulley once per table revolution."

Anyway it's not about the size of the platter. It's about how much
longer the belt is than the circumference of the platter (or, more
accurately of the pulley attached to the platter). Maybe some
designer thought a really long belt to a motor mounted on a separate
chassis was a good idea. A lot of odd designs creep into audiophile
products. That would be satisfyingly dramatic and expensive, so it's
probably been done :-)

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

On 2006-08-29, Don Pearce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:35:21 GMT, lordy wrote:

On 2006-08-29, Eiron wrote:
lordy wrote:

http://lordy.org.uk/noise.html

Of the three main bits of kit - computer, preamp and deck, which of
them are actually grounded through their own mains lead? There is
plainly a ground loop to be eliminated here.

The amp has a similar 3 prong kettle lead as the PC. I'm assuming its
grounded correctly internally.

The screw on the back of the PC is connected to the PSU so I would hope
that was grounded too.

The Preamp did not have a ground, but I was only using that for my PC,
not for the amp chich has an internal phono stage.

Is it likely the deck is faulty?

The wiring on the factory fitted cart looks correct also.

Lordy

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 12:19:01 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Remarks like that from an occasional, blow-in (with nothing to say, like
you) aren't going to keep you out of my ****ter for long...


blather snipped

You left the blather in, but snipped the serious point :-)

I'd like to hear your reasons why you think high-level sub-sonic
content isn't of interest?

If you want to trade insults too, fine. You started it, remember :-)



Only if you include yourself in the general 'clown' remark in my reply to
Plowie - hardly my problem is it?

Now, work back through the thread, find the gratuitous 'silly boy' remark,
ponder it and then post a retraction of the above 'you started it' within,
say, the next hour or so, or you *will* join Allison in my ****ter....

(Infrequent flyers with smart mouths like you have to do a *lot* more work
in here before you can get away calling me names - OK, muchacho?)

Is this too much noise for a budget turntable..
 

On 2006-08-29, lordy wrote:
On 2006-08-29, Don Pearce wrote:
On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 11:35:21 GMT, lordy wrote:

On 2006-08-29, Eiron wrote:
lordy wrote:

http://lordy.org.uk/noise.html

Of the three main bits of kit - computer, preamp and deck, which of
them are actually grounded through their own mains lead? There is
plainly a ground loop to be eliminated here.

Just for clarity, problem occurs on main amp as well as when connected
to my PC.

The amp has a similar 3 prong kettle lead as the PC. I'm assuming its
grounded correctly internally.

The screw on the back of the PC is connected to the PSU so I would hope
that was grounded too.

The Preamp did not have a ground, but I was only using that for my PC,
not for the amp chich has an internal phono stage.

Is it likely the deck is faulty?

The wiring on the factory fitted cart looks correct also.

Lordy