Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Phil Allison wrote:

"Eeyore"

One thing that may confuse the casual listener is that studio monitors
aren't meant to 'flatter' music, they're meant to be like a critical lens on
it,
so they'll show up a poor recording. That's their raison d'etre.

** Studio monitor speakers are required to do three main things:

1. Play very LOUD all day long and for years on end.

2. Be almost unbustable, no matter what horrible abuse is dished out to
them.

3. Draw the engineer's attention to any extraneous noises and signal
quality defects that would render a recording unsaleable.

Popular studio monitor speakers like Tannoy and JBL are very far from being
accurate reproducers - but they do all the above.

Haven't seen a JBL or Tannoy in that role in ages but plenty of ATCs.


This may explain why he thinks hi-fi speakers are better, since _they_ are
indeed designed to flatter any recording rather than to be very accurate
for the
most part.

** What utter ********.

Any hi-fi speakers worth that title are more accurate reproducers than
typical studio monitors.

More accurate than a PMC say ?


Monitoring an audio signal while recording it is an entirely different
activity from listening to the final result for pleasure.

I do believe I said that albeit phrased differently


So much so, that some studios have a separate listening room for the
atter - equipped with speakers like Quad ESL63s.

Never seen one of those myself ( separate room ) but many studios have multiple
monitor setups.

Graham

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Eiron wrote:

But of course if there was no difference you would claim that the
effect was masked by the a/d conversion in your sound card. If you
want to try, I'm sure we could agree a valid test method.

The A/D conversion on a PC sound card is indeed fairly crap.

I haven't yet set my CD recorder up since moving house, but as soon as I
do I'll make an analogue recording onto this, same track, one with
freebie cable and one with Chord Cobra III. Then compare.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

APR wrote:

90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers -
so that's no recommendation.
I use small professional mixing studio monitors and dedicated amp in
my home Hi-Fi setup. These speakers are very detailed and very clear.
I have used very few speaker systems over the years (domestic Hi-Fi
speakers) that come anywhere near my monitors and associated amp on
most of the music I like to play. In fact it is the case that I am
quite happy with what I have got and am not interested in chasing
anything else.

Actually the needs of a studio monitoring system are subtly different to
a domestic hi-fi...

With a studio system the aim is absolute transparency. You need to hear
every last detail that's going down on record, including things that
shouldn't be there (or detract from the sound) like clicking valves on a
trumpet etc.

With domestic hi-fi the aim is to listen to music. If that means
sacrificing some detail to perhaps cover up flaws and sound more
forgiving then so be it. Being forgiving is a highly undesirable trait
for studio kit of course, as it prevents you from hearing mistakes or
stray noises in the first place.

If you've never listened to music on a stupidly expensive esoteric
system I suggest you give it a go. You'll soon find the level of
transparency actually irritates the hell out of you as you can hear
annoying noises on the recording (such as clicking trumpet valves) which
do start to grate after a while. A "lesser" system will cover these up.

A few years ago I knew someone who's bedroom hi-fi was a full blown PA
rig. He couldn't grasp the difference between a system to play music and
sound reinforcement kit. It sounded fairly horrible (typical PA, all top
and bottom) but he liked it. Horses for courses I guess.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Eeyore wrote:

One thing that may confuse the casual listener is that studio
monitors aren't meant to 'flatter' music, they're meant to be like a
critical lens on it, so they'll show up a poor recording. That's
their raison d'etre.

Many years ago when I worked in a recording studio we'd often put a CD
on for some background music when things were quiet. We'd ALWAYS use the
NFMs (Near-Field Monitors) for this, as these were basically a
bomb-proof version of a standard hi-fi speaker. The main studio monitors
were ATC SCM80A (I think, it was a few years ago... 3-way, 12" bass
driver, active). Lovely transparent sound, but the NFMs were much warmer
and much more "hi-fi" and "musical".

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 08:25:01 +0100, Glenn Richards
wrote:

The A/D conversion on a PC sound card is indeed fairly crap.

Which pc sound card?

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

The A/D conversion on a PC sound card is indeed fairly crap.
Which pc sound card?

SB Live.

Also got a Creative MP3 Blaster (external USB) which is a bit better,
but still isn't great. It has this horrible habit of resampling
everything to 48kHz then back to 44.1kHz when it's in analogue mode

If you use digital only then it doesn't resample, it simply acts as a
USB to SPDIF adaptor. Then it's just fine. But obviously for this
demonstration I need an analogue input.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Uncopyrightable wrote:
Have just upgraded to a Pioneer VSX1016 and Mordant Short 90X's

An considering going to bi-wiring, or should it be more expensive 2 core
wire. want to spend around £20.00 per metre, too much? not enough? ...

I think it can be said that you do not have to spend anything like that
kind of money on cables (whether single or bi-wired) to get a good result.

There are demonstrable differences in frequency response between different
cables in an amp-cable-speaker system. There's even a peer-reviewed
JAES paper which shows this. And you don't have to invoke any of the
mystic technical explanations of certain cable manufacturers - it's down
to fully accepted basic physics.

The real questions are about the differences between a well-selected
inexpensive cable and something "designer" and typically more expensive:

- Is the difference really audible?

- If a difference is audible which is better?

- Do you like the look of a "designer cable" anyway so other issues
like cost don't even come into it?

I will comment on some of those from my prespective.


Is the difference really audible?
=================================
Well, if the differences were "night and day" as some say then we
would not be in this sort of discussion. No-one would shy away from
double-blind tests in the grounds of too much stress. So we can
realistically, I think, place an upper bound of "subtle" on the real
differences in common circumstances.

I have tried a few cables on my kit and my own experience confirms that
the differences are no more than "subtle". They may indeed be "inaudible"
since I could not reliably hear a difference.

The JAES paper I referred to above shows differences that are certainly
in the region where they may or may not be audible, so "subtle" still
looks like a good upper bound to assume unless you have a more extreme
amp (e.g. with a high-Z output) and/or loudspeaker (e.g. with a low
impedance somewhere in the audio spectrum).

I don't know which 90X M-S speakers you have but I see from the web (at
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloud...ms/index4.html) that the
905 is not the most benign load but isn't what would be called extreme.

The Pioneer should have a good low output impedance anyway so ordinary
12-guage figure-8 will certainly approach ideal technical performance
for not much money (as seen in that JAES paper). That should cost no
more than GBP 1 or so per metre.


If a difference is audible which is better?
===========================================
Given the significant imperfections in loudspeakers and loudspeaker-room
interactions then the at-most-subtle effects of different cables may
make it moot as to which is better.

Certainly no assumption can be made that more expensive "designer"
cables are better than well-chosen inexpensive ones. The opposite may
well be true. Thus no-one but you can say if there's a difference and
if so which cable is better.

--
John Phillips

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Wally wrote:
Tim wrote:

BTW - to all the people who say "recording studios don't use expensive
cable"
90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

So, are their cables expensive or not, and what has that got to do with them
having crap amps and speakers?


--
Wally
www.wally.myby.co.uk
Things are always clearer in the cold, post-upload light.

They don't care that much about playback in general - it's pretty
obvious isn't it?

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Eeyore wrote:
Wally wrote:

Tim wrote:

BTW - to all the people who say "recording studios don't use expensive
cable"
90% of studios playback sounds terrible compared to a half decent
domestic HIFI , and most studios use terrible amps and speakers - so
that's no recommendation.

So, are their cables expensive or not, and what has that got to do with them
having crap amps and speakers?

A couple of studios I know use ATC kit. It sounds good enough to me. Here are
some of their users.
http://www.atc.gb.net/client_list.html

Tim might care to peruse their crappy terrible-sounding **** speakers.

These guys are good too.
http://www.pmcloudspeaker.com/index2.html

BTW Tim, an NS10 isn't a monitoring speaker.

Graham

They are in a minority- have you spent much time recording in studios?
Yes ATC is superb but most studio owners would laugh if you told them
how much.

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Eeyore wrote:

What is it with you ppl who want to believe in the alleged 'magical properties'
of just one piece of wire in the entire recording / reproduction chain ?

Printed circuit boards aren't made with 'magic copper' for example but then you
can't change that. It's only because *you* can change 'that bit of wire' and
believe it makes such a huge difference that this nonsense continues to exist.

Graham

What is it with you people who refuse to accept that 000's of people
hear and enjoy an improvement when upgrading cables.?? You stick to
what you like and I'll stick to mine, but don't tell me I can't hear
it.

You are Stewart Pinkerton and I claim my £5