Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Bob Latham wrote:

If you want to demonstrate the effect, many of us would love to be
able to hear what you can.
That suggests that there are large numbers of people in the position
of not hearing cables. I would suggest they are in a small minority
of audio enthusiasts. A very vociferous minority with a propensity
for rudeness and attempted verbal bullying.

Reminds me of an old quote...

"There are two sides to every divorce. Yours and the s***head's."

Same seems to hold true here.

I have no idea if I'm alone or not but in my experience,
interconnects tend to change spacial imaging and not tonal balance.
Remove them from a stereo situation and all is equal.

Never tried using mis-matched interconnects, but you're generally right.
Upgrading the interconnect seems to give better imaging, and often a
less "muddy" sound.

Loudspeaker cables on the other hand (for me at least) have a baring
on bass speed and weight, mid and top sweetness or harshness. I've
never heard them make a difference to imaging.

Bell wire == no bass, muddy confused midband, splashy treble.

I also notice that I cannot remember many non engineering audio
enthusiast that cannot hear cables. We are constantly told that
people are brainwashed into hearing things by price and beefiness
etc. I'm sure this is true but equally others are convinced it can't
be, long before they try to listen.

I don't think there's any brainwashing involved. I was once of the
opinion that interconnects make no difference. A friend bought himself a
new system to replace an ageing Aiwa midi system. The guy at Richer
Sounds persuaded him to buy an Atlantic interconnect to go between CD
player and amp (I was in the shop with him swearing blind it wouldn't
make a difference).

When we got the system back to his place I gave him a hand setting it
up, using freebie cables. He suggested we try the Atlantic interconnect
and see if it really did make a difference. "It won't," I replied. But
we tried it anyway.

Swapped it over, put the same CD on we'd just been listening to...
"Bloody hell!" Yes, indeed it did make a difference, we both heard it
quite clearly. Improved imaging and a much less muddy sound.

So to paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson... for the first time since 1980 I was
wrong!

So yes, there is some substance in it. So far nobody's come up with a
scientific explanation... but nobody's come up with a scientific
explanation for the Big Bang either, and we know that happened otherwise
we wouldn't be here.

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:01:08 +0100, Glenn Richards
wrote:

When we got the system back to his place I gave him a hand setting it
up, using freebie cables. He suggested we try the Atlantic interconnect
and see if it really did make a difference. "It won't," I replied. But
we tried it anyway.

Swapped it over, put the same CD on we'd just been listening to...
"Bloody hell!" Yes, indeed it did make a difference, we both heard it
quite clearly. Improved imaging and a much less muddy sound.

You've missed out the unprompted comment from his wife :-)

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:47:12 +0100, Laurence Payne
lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 09:01:08 +0100, Glenn Richards
wrote:

When we got the system back to his place I gave him a hand setting it
up, using freebie cables. He suggested we try the Atlantic interconnect
and see if it really did make a difference. "It won't," I replied. But
we tried it anyway.

Swapped it over, put the same CD on we'd just been listening to...
"Bloody hell!" Yes, indeed it did make a difference, we both heard it
quite clearly. Improved imaging and a much less muddy sound.

You've missed out the unprompted comment from his wife :-)

I was just thinking the exact same thing! Whatever effect Glen is
trying to explain to us, he comes up with the exact same story - I
don't even need to read the posts any more. He really needs to write
his lies down so he doesn't re-cycle them quite so frequently.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

In article ,
Glenn Richards wrote:
I don't think there's any brainwashing involved. I was once of the
opinion that interconnects make no difference. A friend bought himself a
new system to replace an ageing Aiwa midi system. The guy at Richer
Sounds persuaded him to buy an Atlantic interconnect to go between CD
player and amp (I was in the shop with him swearing blind it wouldn't
make a difference).

When we got the system back to his place I gave him a hand setting it
up, using freebie cables. He suggested we try the Atlantic interconnect
and see if it really did make a difference. "It won't," I replied. But
we tried it anyway.

Swapped it over, put the same CD on we'd just been listening to...
"Bloody hell!" Yes, indeed it did make a difference, we both heard it
quite clearly. Improved imaging and a much less muddy sound.

So to paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson... for the first time since 1980 I was
wrong!

So yes, there is some substance in it. So far nobody's come up with a
scientific explanation... but nobody's come up with a scientific
explanation for the Big Bang either, and we know that happened otherwise
we wouldn't be here.

Someone somewhere has designed both the cables and the connectors for
these interconnects. Both are pretty well exclusive to audio equipment -
not like using mains cable for speakers. So that someone somewhere must
have decided that the parameters of 'basic' audio co-ax etc could be
improved. Likewise the connectors. And therefore must know what's wrong
with those.

FWIW, the only times I've found interconnects can make an audible
difference is with high output impedance valve pre-amps, and with pickup
wiring for the same sort of reasons. With something like a CD to amp
connection over normal domestic lengths - never. The output impedance of a
CD player is (or should be) too low to be influenced by any normal co-ax
characteristics.

--
*When cheese gets it's picture taken, what does it say?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

On 2006-09-22, Eeyore wrote:


John Phillips wrote:

There are demonstrable differences in frequency response between different
cables in an amp-cable-speaker system. There's even a peer-reviewed
JAES paper which shows this. And you don't have to invoke any of the
mystic technical explanations of certain cable manufacturers - it's down
to fully accepted basic physics.

It's fundamentally down to cable resistance. Which in turn is down to the
cross-sectional area. The brand of cable makes no difference.

Certainly excessive resistance in a cable interacts with the speaker's
frequency-dependent impedance to colour the sound. So you do have
to have low (enough) resistance. No dependence on brand as you say -
just plain geometry. Large (enough) cross sectional area is the key.

However the inductance of a cable does start to hurt the frequency
response a bit above 5 kHz or so, so you have to pay attention to
inductance as well. Fortunately that's also dependent only on geometry.
Closely spaced pairs do well in this respect.

The cable's capacitance is rarely an issue unless the amplifier is
unstable into capacitive loads. That would be a design defect in my
book but at least one well-known line of amplifiers I know does have
this defect.

--
John Phillips

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

"Glenn Richards" wrote in message
...


Swapped it over, put the same CD on we'd just been listening to... "Bloody
hell!" Yes, indeed it did make a difference, we both heard it quite
clearly. Improved imaging and a much less muddy sound.

How come there are NEVER and stories that start *Once upon a time we changed
over to these high dollar interconnects and they sounded like s#!t.* All
these interconnect and speaker wire stories always have a happy ending.

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

On 2006-09-23, Glenn Richards wrote:
"There are two sides to every divorce. Yours and the s***head's."

Same seems to hold true here.

Well that's the first time I have heard anyone describe themselves as
a s***head :-)

Bell wire == no bass, muddy confused midband, splashy treble.

It's a bit disingenuous to refer to bell wire in this context. The other
side of the argument is based on the view that the audible difference
between well specified cables is too low to be significant.

Bell wire (not even a well specified term) is typically circa 24 or 28
gauge single core zip-style cable. It simply has not enough copper to be
considered as well specified in most cases. It may well cause audible
colouration through excessive resistance.

12 gauge zip cord, however, is much more likely to be well specified
unless you have certain Apogees or their like. (But then you may need
a Krell or similar to power them anyway).

--
John Phillips

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

In article ,
John Phillips wrote:
Bell wire == no bass, muddy confused midband, splashy treble.

It's a bit disingenuous to refer to bell wire in this context. The other
side of the argument is based on the view that the audible difference
between well specified cables is too low to be significant.

Bell wire (not even a well specified term) is typically circa 24 or 28
gauge single core zip-style cable. It simply has not enough copper to be
considered as well specified in most cases. It may well cause audible
colouration through excessive resistance.

Bell wire is available in two sizes - 0.5mm and 0.75mm, although the first
is the most common. Due to its construction it will have a very low
inductance. For a short run the larger size would be ok - try looking at
the internal wiring of most speakers. ;-)

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

In article 1hlsyi2.x7aw5v11xasq9N%wildrover.andy@googlemail. com,
Andy Hewitt wrote:
No, it's nothing to do with resistance, it to do with the fact that each
speaker can be moving at different speeds and directions. From this
there is a chance that the woofer can send distortion up the cable and
interfere with the tweeter frequencies. You use a thick cable to the LF
to send raw power. The tweeter needs a cleaner signal, so you use a
thinner cable for that. By connecting the cables at source, and
separating them at the speaker, there is enough time to prevent the
interference.

I'm afraid this is twaddle, Andy, as any 'difference' at one end of the
cable will be essentially accurately repeated at the other as they are in
parallel. Remember you're talking about a signal that travels near the
speed of light - unlike the mechanical movement of a speaker.

On a proper bi-wirable speaker, you actually feed the crossover points
separately, so the signals don't actually mix. If you bridge the
connections, you turn it into an ordinary speaker.

But they start out the same at the amp. And a passive crossover isn't some
of one way valve.

I read an article about this in a pro magazine somewhere, but can't
remember the exact details now, but that was the general gist of it.

I'd say it's one of those typical mistakes where the benefits of true
bi-amping where the crossover occurs before the amps and each amp can be
best suited to the driver is transposed into simply using dual cables.

Of course whether you can hear the difference or not is a personal
preference.

It's been said many times that the 'ear' is easily fooled by the eye or
wallet. To be certain there actually is a true difference requires
scientific testing. If that difference exists it would be easily proved.

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Speaker Wire advise pls
 

Laurence Payne wrote:

Swapped it over, put the same CD on we'd just been listening to...
"Bloody hell!" Yes, indeed it did make a difference, we both heard it
quite clearly. Improved imaging and a much less muddy sound.
You've missed out the unprompted comment from his wife :-)

He wasn't married at the time. (As an aside he is now, got married back
in July.)

--
Glenn Richards Tel: (01453) 845735
Squirrel Solutions http://www.squirrelsolutions.co.uk/

IT consultancy, hardware and software support, broadband installation