On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:47:21 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"malc" wrote in message
...


Statistics say whatever
you want them to.


No they don't, not if they are genuine and accurate.....

Years ago I read a book called "How to lie with statistics" which
shows how to select and present genuine and accurate information to
give virtually whatever conclusion you want. Never trusted statiscal
results since, especially if they come from
salemen/politicians/pressure groups etc.


Tell you what, chill out and read these:

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/netmusic/...526590,00.html

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...ge=1&pagepos=2

This one actually gives some figures at the bottom, if you believe
them of course!

7 inch vinyl sales for 2005 -- 288,780
Total single sales for 2005 -- 11,040,075

So vinyl singles sales were 2.6% of the total market.

Yes, vinyl singles sales increased by 87% but from an insignificant
base. Also note that overall sales increased by 52%.

Someone says that vinyl singles sales have increased by 87% (a big
number) but gives no other figures. The naive observer concludes that
vinyl sales are doing well and becoming significant. Look at the real
figures and the true picture emerges.

Otherwise known as lying with statistics.

http://www.bpi.co.uk/index.asp?Page=...file_938.shtml


And have a little think about it all......

"Bill Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:47:21 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"malc" wrote in message
...


Statistics say whatever
you want them to.


No they don't, not if they are genuine and accurate.....

Years ago I read a book called "How to lie with statistics" which
shows how to select and present genuine and accurate information to
give virtually whatever conclusion you want. Never trusted statiscal
results since, especially if they come from
salemen/politicians/pressure groups etc.


Tell you what, chill out and read these:

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/netmusic/...526590,00.html

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...ge=1&pagepos=2

This one actually gives some figures at the bottom, if you believe
them of course!

7 inch vinyl sales for 2005 -- 288,780
Total single sales for 2005 -- 11,040,075

So vinyl singles sales were 2.6% of the total market.

Yes, vinyl singles sales increased by 87% but from an insignificant
base. Also note that overall sales increased by 52%.

Someone says that vinyl singles sales have increased by 87% (a big
number) but gives no other figures. The naive observer concludes that
vinyl sales are doing well and becoming significant. Look at the real
figures and the true picture emerges.

Otherwise known as lying with statistics.



Have I got 'Toopid' or summat tattooed on my forehead that I need a lecture
on statistics? No-one in his right mind believes a word of what politicians,
salesmen, clergymen and most 'professionals' say, but to dismiss all
statistics as 'lies, all lies' is a little ignorant to say the least.
Without the scientific application of 'statististic' you'd still be queueing
for the toilet somewhere....

(Long before there was *digital anything* my grandfather told me not to
believe half what I see or anything that I hear....!! ;-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Bill Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:47:21 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"malc" wrote in message
...


Statistics say whatever
you want them to.


No they don't, not if they are genuine and accurate.....

Years ago I read a book called "How to lie with statistics" which
shows how to select and present genuine and accurate information to
give virtually whatever conclusion you want. Never trusted statiscal
results since, especially if they come from
salemen/politicians/pressure groups etc.


Tell you what, chill out and read these:

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/netmusic/...526590,00.html

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...ge=1&pagepos=2

This one actually gives some figures at the bottom, if you believe
them of course!

7 inch vinyl sales for 2005 -- 288,780
Total single sales for 2005 -- 11,040,075

So vinyl singles sales were 2.6% of the total market.

Yes, vinyl singles sales increased by 87% but from an insignificant
base. Also note that overall sales increased by 52%.

Someone says that vinyl singles sales have increased by 87% (a big
number) but gives no other figures. The naive observer concludes that
vinyl sales are doing well and becoming significant. Look at the real
figures and the true picture emerges.

Otherwise known as lying with statistics.



Have I got 'Toopid' or summat tattooed on my forehead that I need a
lecture on statistics? No-one in his right mind believes a word of what
politicians, salesmen, clergymen and most 'professionals' say, but to
dismiss all statistics as 'lies, all lies' is a little ignorant to say the
least. Without the scientific application of 'statististic' you'd still be
queueing for the toilet somewhere....

(Long before there was *digital anything* my grandfather told me not to
believe half what I see or anything that I hear....!! ;-)


'statististic' ???

(Must be some new type of record cleaner....???)

On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 10:40:54 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Bill Taylor" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 23:47:21 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"malc" wrote in message
...


Statistics say whatever
you want them to.


No they don't, not if they are genuine and accurate.....

Years ago I read a book called "How to lie with statistics" which
shows how to select and present genuine and accurate information to
give virtually whatever conclusion you want. Never trusted statiscal
results since, especially if they come from
salemen/politicians/pressure groups etc.


Tell you what, chill out and read these:

http://arts.guardian.co.uk/netmusic/...526590,00.html

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index...ge=1&pagepos=2

This one actually gives some figures at the bottom, if you believe
them of course!

7 inch vinyl sales for 2005 -- 288,780
Total single sales for 2005 -- 11,040,075

So vinyl singles sales were 2.6% of the total market.

Yes, vinyl singles sales increased by 87% but from an insignificant
base. Also note that overall sales increased by 52%.

Someone says that vinyl singles sales have increased by 87% (a big
number) but gives no other figures. The naive observer concludes that
vinyl sales are doing well and becoming significant. Look at the real
figures and the true picture emerges.

Otherwise known as lying with statistics.



Have I got 'Toopid' or summat tattooed on my forehead that I need a lecture
on statistics?

It's quite obvious that you aren't 'Toopid'. Judging from your
original post and your reply denying that statistics can be
manipulated it seemed that you did need a Lecture

No-one in his right mind believes a word of what politicians,
salesmen, clergymen and most 'professionals' say, but to dismiss all
statistics as 'lies, all lies' is a little ignorant to say the least.
Without the scientific application of 'statististic' you'd still be queueing
for the toilet somewhere....

Quite.

(Long before there was *digital anything* my grandfather told me not to
believe half what I see or anything that I hear....!! ;-)

In article ,
Keith G wrote:
WTF *are you going on about? I just told you - 16 year olds are buying 7
inch singles. It was on the bloody telly!! Do you think they would
bother to broadcast that if it wasn't true....??

Wonder where the average 16 year old finds something decent to play them
on? Of course they may like the sound of a Dansette too, but I don't think
this has much to do with a group dedicated to audio...

--
*Aim Low, Reach Your Goals, Avoid Disappointment *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Keith G wrote:
WTF *are you going on about? I just told you - 16 year olds are buying 7
inch singles. It was on the bloody telly!! Do you think they would
bother to broadcast that if it wasn't true....??

Wonder where the average 16 year old finds something decent to play them
on? Of course they may like the sound of a Dansette too, but I don't think
this has much to do with a group dedicated to audio...



No, it's OK - the kid in the interview worked in a recording studio....

(Recording engineer/producer, I believe....)

"malc" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
news

Don't hold me to these figures but I believe the recent UK sales have
been along the following lines:

2001 - £178,000 (approx)

2005 - over a £million!


What a load of rubbish! I like the way you can just pluck a figure from
the air and qualify it by saying not to hold you to it. Statistics say
whatever you want them to.
It also depends on whether that was one shop, one chain of shops, one
area, across the UK or world.


I saw this yesterday on the BBC 10 o'clock news. There were young kids
auditioning 7" singles on free to use turntables in some large record shop
somewhere and I believe the figures were for total UK sales of new 7"
singles.

What was interesting was the young lad on the TV prog said what he like
about the singles was the physical aspect of having something to see and
hold! (As opposed to the 'virtual music' of the iPods!) PG also said
summat like playing a record involved the visual sense and watching the
record play was an important part of the experience!!

Was he taking any drugs at the time as a "young lad" would not say that !

Well, this lad looked under 18 and was on national telly talking in a public
shop in broad daylight so I doubt if he was on drugs. In fact there were
both young lads and ladies talking about why they like vinyl.

Young people don't appreciate records as they have been brought up on CD
and MP3, so not many of them will have experience of records. They would
tend to class them as old peoples things - making them uncool to be
associated with.

But if they won't know any old people with vinyl the association will be
broken eventually. My brother (28) is indifferent to vinyl whereas my sister
wanted a turntable for her 21st birthday this year. Things go round in
circles and currently vinyl is becoming cool again.

Also, I think that part of it has to be that people are geting fed up of
loosing most of their music collection every time their iPod is stolen.
Who's going to mug someone for a 7"?

Phil

"Phil North" wrote



But if they won't know any old people with vinyl the association will be
broken eventually. My brother (28) is indifferent to vinyl whereas my
sister wanted a turntable for her 21st birthday this year. Things go round
in circles and currently vinyl is becoming cool again.


When was it ever *not*.....??

:-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Phil North" wrote



But if they won't know any old people with vinyl the association will be
broken eventually. My brother (28) is indifferent to vinyl whereas my
sister wanted a turntable for her 21st birthday this year. Things go
round in circles and currently vinyl is becoming cool again.


When was it ever *not*.....??

:-)

Between the 11am and 1pm on 20th March 1983
:-)

Keith G wrote:
...so it must be true!



What was interesting was the young lad on the TV prog said what he like
about the singles was the physical aspect of having something to see and
hold! (As opposed to the 'virtual music' of the iPods!) PG also said summat
like playing a record involved the visual sense and watching the record play
was an important part of the experience!!


So nothing to do with the quality of the sound then?

Roy.