"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch of
amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen to
them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??



* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable,
makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense and
any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to make a
final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both and flog the
'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they sound on the amps
(in the listening room) would be the final decider, in any case.....

Playing Right Now: 'Ride of the Valkyres' on a pumped-up French BS 'Sampler
LP' - any more dynamics than that and I would have to run Sellotape round
the house .....

Oh gawd, it's the Slaves Chorus (Verdi) now....

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?





Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

Scott

wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught? No,
I don't know.






Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different
products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

**Some can be learned there, but without using the intended speakers, that
knowledge may be useless. Expensive equipment needs to be auditioned in
one's own home. Anything else is just not good enough.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au





--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught? No,
I don't know.

Without catching someone, how does one know it happens?







Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different
products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

**Some can be learned there, but without using the intended speakers, that
knowledge may be useless. Expensive equipment needs to be auditioned in
one's own home. Anything else is just not good enough.


I agree about needing the right speakers. Back in the day after I
decided to Buy the Martin Logan CLSs with a Vandersteen sub I spent a
lot of time auditioning amps at that dealer. His room was larger than
mine. I think that worked out just fine. The differences I heard at the
dealer were very much the same when I finally got the speakers home and
extended those audtions,

Scott

wrote in message
ups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Trevor Wilson wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 11:20:20 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

* Ignore magazine reviews (you have no idea what their agenda may
be)

Another conspiracy theorist ! Some reviewers may be deaf but reviews
are a very useful starting point for drawing up a short list.

**Why? How do you know that the reviewer did not just return from an
all
expenses paid trip to The Maldives with the manufacturer of the
product?

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught?
No,
I don't know.

Without catching someone, how does one know it happens?

**One is propositioned. I have been propositioned. I refused and the product
I represented was not reviewed. It is a poorly kept secret throughout the
industry. At least it was ten years ago. I can't imagine that anything much
has altered.








Talking to hifi dealers and research their suggestions in magazines
is
a good plan.

**LISTENING in YOUR room with YOUR speaker, to a range of different
products
in your price range is a good plan. Anything else is just daft.

It certainly is an ideal but if a dealer has a good room a lot can be
learned there.

**Some can be learned there, but without using the intended speakers,
that
knowledge may be useless. Expensive equipment needs to be auditioned in
one's own home. Anything else is just not good enough.


I agree about needing the right speakers. Back in the day after I
decided to Buy the Martin Logan CLSs with a Vandersteen sub I spent a
lot of time auditioning amps at that dealer. His room was larger than
mine. I think that worked out just fine. The differences I heard at the
dealer were very much the same when I finally got the speakers home and
extended those audtions,

**Exactly.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:48:28 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught? No,
I don't know.

So YOU caught him, but people close to him, i.e. his employers,
didn't? Time to do the industry a favour and spill the beans I
think! Who, where, when?

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.

only complaint is lack of tape loop.

Go and have a listen I think it's great VFM , built superbly and seems
to be reliable.

I don't know the other amp.

Tim

"Tim" wrote in message
ups.com...

wrote:
Wondering which of the following two Audio Valve amplifiers to buy:
Any helpful comments would be appreciated.
*
(1) PRIMALUNA PROLOGUE 2
(2) Pathos Classic One
*
Thank you for your help.
Wed 25Oct06

I "downgraded" from a Croft/Copland set up to a Prologue 2 - I've been
very happy with it. It's quiet powerful (ie drives Esl 63s & LS5/9
easily) but I would recommend changing the valves, the stock ones are
pretty poor. The great thing about this is that you can use many types
of power valves and it stays happy - I currently use mullard 82 & 83
and GE 7581/KT66 - REAL KT88s are stupid money.



Having seen inside a burnt out one (nasty), I'd have thought it was hard to
downgrade *from* a Copland....

"Laurence Payne" lpayne1NOSPAM@dslDOTpipexDOTcom wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Oct 2006 16:48:28 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

That would be payola. Have you ever heard of an audio reviewer getting
caught taking bribes for positive reviews?

**Am I aware that it happens? Yes. Do I know if anyone has been caught?
No,
I don't know.

So YOU caught him, but people close to him, i.e. his employers,
didn't?

**His employers? LOL! The problem is endemic. Everyone shares in the booty.

Time to do the industry a favour and spill the beans I
think! Who, where, when?

**Who? Nope. Ain't gonna happen. I'll take that information to my grave.
Where? Las Vegas.
When? 10 years ago.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
.. .

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Trevor Wilson" wrote


**What would be far more sensible would be to assemble a whole bunch of
amps, within the price range, regardless of technology and listen to
them in a blind test.


Yep, say 30 or 40 amps and with a little bit of help you could have the
job knocked off in an afternoon....


**Points:

* You would not need to listen to that many.


What's a 'whole bunch' then? Dozen or so...??

**However many is necessary. The OP could, for instance, choose the
following as a representative sample:
* The two amps orginally asked about.
* Another quality push pull valve amp.
* A zero global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.
* A high Global NFB SS amp, which offers good performance figures.

He should be able to glean most of what he needs to know by listening to the
above.




* LISTENING, rather than asking people who may or may not be reliable,
makes far more sense to us humans.
* Both amps quoted cost serious Squid. A good long listen makes sense and
any dealer who does not comply does not deserve the business.


Couldn't agree more - I would need the 'last few' amps for months to make
a final choice. My original suggestion is still good - buy both and flog
the 'loser' on after a long trial. The speakers and how they sound on the
amps (in the listening room) would be the final decider, in any case.....

**Dumb idea. Hi fi products lose value faster than new cars. Don't spend a
single Squid, until a good long listen can be had. Anything else is just
dumb.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com