Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

"Here in Ohio" wrote in message

On Thu, 16 Nov 2006 08:03:37 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Stephen Worth" wrote in message

In article
, Mr.T
MrT@home wrote:

DON'T try playing a vinyl copy of the Telarc 1812 with
that cheap cartridge, one playing will damage it.

I don't think there's a cartridge made that will track
that properly. Telarc cut certain records WAY out of
spec deliberately for the "more is better" audiophool
set.

Thanks to Telarc for so clearly demonstrating one of the
well-known failings of the LP format.

The comment I had heard was that the "cannon shots" on
that record were really the sound of the cutter head
hitting its stops.

In the day of, photomicrographs of those grooves were published in at least
one of the audio ragazines. They did not seem to show any signs of clipping.

The general rule of thumb is that it is far easier to cut an agressive LP
than to track it.

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

"Arny Krueger" writes:

The general rule of thumb is that it is far easier to cut an agressive LP
than to track it.

Cutting doesn't have to be done in real-time.
--
% Randy Yates % "Ticket to the moon, flight leaves here today
%% Fuquay-Varina, NC % from Satellite 2"
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%%%% % *Time*, Electric Light Orchestra
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Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

"Randy Yates" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" writes:

The general rule of thumb is that it is far easier to
cut an agressive LP than to track it.

Cutting doesn't have to be done in real-time.

Agreed, and there weren't a lot of viable options in the day of.

Today, we can playback vinyl at any speed that suits our other needs, and
still listen to it with natural pitch and timbre.

Unfortunately, slow playback won't help problems due to bass excursion, and
will make the tone arm fundamental resonance issues more intrusive because
they will move up the musical scale when we listen.

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...


snip, irrelevant to point below

I was spinning vinyl back in the days when the first elliptical styli came
out. Lots of us upgraded existing cartridges to use them, even though our
existing conicals were in good shape.

I agree with Arny on this. Ellipticals were a godsend and greatly improved
tracking, improved high-frequency sound, and reduced surface noise. There
was a mass migration and upgrade as a result.

When finelines came along, they carried this further but the improvment was
incremental, not massive.

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

In article , Mr.T
MrT@home wrote:

You haven't been following the thread then. It was claimed that a $50
cartridge with a conical stylus at any tracking force, would cause less
groove damage than the most expensive cartridges available using line
contact or any other stylus shape.

Sorry. You're the one who hasn't been listening. That isn't what I said
at all. Are you trying to prop up a straw man?

See ya
Steve

--
Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/
The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/
Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
Conical styli are generally a step backwards. So we have a big step
backwards into an obsolete format, followed by a step backwards within the
technology of that obsolete format.

Pretty much sums it up. But at least he admits it's only to save money (even
that's doubtful) not that it's actually superior to CD, as many others feel
the need to claim.

MrT.

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

In article , Stephen Worth
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
Think about the shape of an elliptical stylus... imagine it contacting
the groove a little bit off angle. One side will contact harder than
the other. A conical stylus is symmetrical. It can be a little twisted
one way or the other and it still contacts the groove the same.

Not so, there are three axis that need to be aligned. Maybe the horizontal
plane will not affect a spherical tip, but the vertical plane and tracking
angle still have an effect, unless the stylus was a complete sphere.

Alignment does NOT stay the same. If you use your turntable regularly,
things move around as you handle the tonearm. Elliptical stylii need to
be aligned every three to six months with everyday use.

Yet my experience over some decades of using LP replay systems
with non-'conical' styli did not agree with your theory. Although
it has been some time since I used LP on an 'everyday' basis. But
I did do so for many years.

Doesn't match many others experience either. Maybe he is very heavy handed.

For all I know, you are correct. But I haven't found any assessable
evidence, not have you provided any, nor does my experience indicate
that you are right. So unless you are able to provide some specific
reference that I - and perhaps others - could examine, I am afraid I
will have to doubt your assertion. :-)

Given his lack of understanding of the alignment procedure, I would say that
is a wise move.

MrT.

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

"Stephen Worth" wrote in message
...
You haven't been following the thread then. It was claimed that a $50
cartridge with a conical stylus at any tracking force, would cause less
groove damage than the most expensive cartridges available using line
contact or any other stylus shape.

Sorry. You're the one who hasn't been listening. That isn't what I said
at all. Are you trying to prop up a straw man?

I notice you snipped the part where I suggested any doubters merely use
Google groups to ascertain that is pretty much exactly what was claimed.
The thing I love about Usenet is that anybody can claim they didn't say
something, but the whole world can still read exactly what was said.

If you are now making a different claim, maybe you should tell us what it
is?

MrT.

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

Stephen Worth wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

I'd be interested to see some references to some research/measurement
reports that support the above as a generalised assertion about
"elliptical tipped" cartridges.

This is info that goes back to the LP era. Do some googling. You'll
find it. You might try looking for references to stylus shapes
intended for transcription as opposed to everyday use.

Think about the shape of an elliptical stylus... imagine it contacting
the groove a little bit off angle. One side will contact harder than
the other. A conical stylus is symmetrical. It can be a little twisted
one way or the other and it still contacts the groove the same.

Alignment does NOT stay the same. If you use your turntable regularly,
things move around as you handle the tonearm. Elliptical stylii need
to be aligned every three to six months with everyday use.

See ya
Steve

If the cartridge is properly secured in place, the alignment should not
change with ordinary handling. This seems obvious.

In the under - 50.00 range, the Grado Prestige Black is a stone bargain.


Mark Z.

Independent View Of LP versus CD
 

In article , Mr.T
MrT@home wrote:

If you are now making a different claim, maybe you should tell us what it
is?

I said that it's perfectly possible to put together a good sounding
setup for playing vinyl LPs for $250 to $300.

See ya
Steve

--
Rare 78 rpm recordings on CD! http://www.vintageip.com/records/
Building a museum and archive of animation! http://www.animationarchive.org/
The Quest for the BEST HOTDOG in Los Angeles! http://www.hotdogspot.com/
Rediscovering great stuff from the past! http://www.vintagetips.com/